Roger440

Sadly no history or other information. Owner was clueless about any of it. Owned for a while though. It struck me as a bit odd, mainly because the 2 parallel lower arms looked to be perfect, if somewhat flimsy, connected to an aluminium rear cross member. Its not complicated under there, yet clearly something is amiss. All bushes etc looked to be perfect. No sign of any damage around any of the mounting points at all. Looked untouched.

Had an Alfa 156 2.0 in today by referal. Not really a car i know anything about, but we had look regardless. The tyre had to be replaced due to wear on the inner edge on the left rear. The tyre chap suggested it got looked at as he suspected excess camber. Checked it and indeed he was right., -2.9 degrees. Other side -1.5. Checked everything over and all looked in order. No damge to suspension or car that i could see. My question is, as it appeared to be non-adjustable, does anyone know if there is a recognised correction process, or any aftermarket adjusters?

Ohh, dont get me started on jacking cars. A lot of places just boot the jack under and hope it picks up on something solid. The amount of damage we see is amazing, espcially 944 front floors. There is a jigging point that looks like a jacking point - so it gets used by the unintiated Is it just me that has a selection of odd shaped bits of wood to avoid damaging cars?

GM offer this as an option on the new HSV GTS over in OZ. Can't tell you much more than that though!

Got to admit, i was defeated by a recent visitor to the workshop. Ordinarily, i wouldn't have done it, but a guy i know has an old skool beetle that is right on the floor. Took 3/4 hour to get on the ramp!!!! In the end, because of the wheel location and ride hieght, i had to set the tracking with toe plates and a tape measure. Still, not a great deal of variables on beetle suspension. Good to see a healthy disregard for scrub lines! Still, didn't answer the question did i? Shouldn't be a problem but it you may need to be a bit more specfic in who you use to set it up. Some equipment may become unusable if it is too low.

Sleep is for wimps ... The 911T club seem to be hitting wim at the moment Roger?.... these cars are not my speciality, the absence of this tool and the customer increase is making me nervous can you advise..? Then i will go to bed..... Squeaky clean.. no fags' Which 911's? As i understand it, its only the 993 variant that this affects. All others, normal procedures apply! Sorry for delay - i went to bed!

Thanks Tango. I may well take up your offer. Much appreciated. Tony, i have no idea currently! One of our customers has a 993, aside from the one who wants his alignment done, so im gonna try and get it on the ramp, wheels off and try to understand the rear suspension. Once i have done this i will feedback what i find. Hopefully i will also have aquired the necessary workshop manual updates to, but this is proving hard. Thought you were going to bed

It may well be pants, but right now i have no other way of finding out. Bear in mind that it is a copy of a genuine Porsche Motorsport Division item, so it WILL have a purpose. They don't do stuff for the sake of it, thats for sure. This will validate or otherwise. No better way than to do it yourself!! And, as ever, its developed into a myth to such an extent, that there is no getting away from it. Once i understand it, maybe i can do my bit to dispel or otherwise. Until then, my options are limited.

I don't understand it... What i do know it has no relevance to Castor... the scale reads 8.7.6.5.4.3.2.1. This device has some relevant to COG and dynamic toe, but i fail to see the end result.. each time i read the advert i come up empty. Maybe the scale numbers have no actual meaning, rather, just a setting to be achived. Altering the relationship of the top and bottom arms will alter the reading. I think the ad is just a red herring! I can't find anything useful on the interweb so far. Just lots of people saying youy must do it! I concur.... Shall we shoot this one and name it time waster Simple answer...don't buy a 993 Can't go with either of those ideas sadly, as ive got to do one soon, and its got a nervous twitch from the rear. Suppose i will have to buy said device and read the instructions. Won't make any money on that job at $350!!!! Have you measured the car before? No. The owner asked me about the kinematic toe. He had no idea what it was, but wanted to know that i knew all about it. Bit of a problem there as you can imagine - hence the need to find out, as well as the fact that the rear feels as if its stepping out mid corner on a nice sweeping bend. I drove it myself and it does feel like that! I think the patient is trying to over analyse his own diagnostics Without an Geometric image there is no foundation for resolving the handling symptoms... Kinematic toe reads like Betamax to me... move him on to something more constructive in the chassis world. Thing is, if i can't show that i know what it is and have the means to do it, he won't come, and nor will others. Thats just how it is Better get the cheque book out.

I don't understand it... What i do know it has no relevance to Castor... the scale reads 8.7.6.5.4.3.2.1. This device has some relevant to COG and dynamic toe, but i fail to see the end result.. each time i read the advert i come up empty. Maybe the scale numbers have no actual meaning, rather, just a setting to be achived. Altering the relationship of the top and bottom arms will alter the reading. I think the ad is just a red herring! I can't find anything useful on the interweb so far. Just lots of people saying youy must do it! I concur.... Shall we shoot this one and name it time waster Simple answer...don't buy a 993 Can't go with either of those ideas sadly, as ive got to do one soon, and its got a nervous twitch from the rear. Suppose i will have to buy said device and read the instructions. Won't make any money on that job at $350!!!! Have you measured the car before? No. The owner asked me about the kinematic toe. He had no idea what it was, but wanted to know that i knew all about it. Bit of a problem there as you can imagine - hence the need to find out, as well as the fact that the rear feels as if its stepping out mid corner on a nice sweeping bend. I drove it myself and it does feel like that!

I don't understand it... What i do know it has no relevance to Castor... the scale reads 8.7.6.5.4.3.2.1. This device has some relevant to COG and dynamic toe, but i fail to see the end result.. each time i read the advert i come up empty. Maybe the scale numbers have no actual meaning, rather, just a setting to be achived. Altering the relationship of the top and bottom arms will alter the reading. I think the ad is just a red herring! I can't find anything useful on the interweb so far. Just lots of people saying youy must do it! I concur.... Shall we shoot this one and name it time waster Simple answer...don't buy a 993 Can't go with either of those ideas sadly, as ive got to do one soon, and its got a nervous twitch from the rear. Suppose i will have to buy said device and read the instructions. Won't make any money on that job at $350!!!!

I don't understand it... What i do know it has no relevance to Castor... the scale reads 8.7.6.5.4.3.2.1. This device has some relevant to COG and dynamic toe, but i fail to see the end result.. each time i read the advert i come up empty. Maybe the scale numbers have no actual meaning, rather, just a setting to be achived. Altering the relationship of the top and bottom arms will alter the reading. I think the ad is just a red herring! I can't find anything useful on the interweb so far. Just lots of people saying youy must do it!

I think the real question is why at all? Tony, you out there? It seems to be measuring a castor like angle????

Thanks Tango Here it is fitted. I'm thinking about this! http://www.autometricsmotorsports.com/products/ktt/ktt2.jpg

Good to see your evaluation was not far different from mine! In 993 world it seems to have developed into an urban myth. Normal people cant do it, it seems. I can only assume from what i have managed to find that getting a stable reading is the problem. Ie jack it up and put it down and it doesn't settle to its "normal" position. Clearly a 3D machine with a rollback/forward calibration would be advantageous. Still, i should know soon as ive got one coming in

There is much talk in the Porsche world of Kinematic toe on 993's Check this link here: http://www.autofarm.co.uk/new.php3/Geom.html Given that they appear to have a John Bean machine just like any other, what is your interpretation of the term "kinematic toe"?

One of the guys in the HSV club is bringing his Vauxhall Monaro to you for an alignment check - or so he says. Symptom is that it pulls left. This is very common on these cars and i have discussed with Tony re investgating further why even when all settings are correct! If he does come, id be very interested if you could share the results with us?

Good question!

Interesting. Probably my own fault as we have never really advertised the fact we have corner weighting equipment!! Its not that expensive either (the eqipment) - releatively speaking.

Nice looking kit! Where are the other 4 pistons and rods?

As you say, its good to learn! I've only done a few corner weighting jobs. Problem with it is, its quite time consuming, so not something most people will be interested in i suspect. Certainly not for most road cars anyway. Ive never assesed the difference between a car that just had the hieghts set up to the same car after corner weighting. Any one have any views on the scale of any benefits?

Agree with the cooling theroy. GM use this technique on the stock engine map on the cars we do when air intake temps get very high. Not convinced of the benefits though.

Your answer belays the question. tdiplc has suggested a reason and this reply confuses me.... Your new track support reply also confuses me? The fully mapped remark surely is vital toward the overall track position (over or under fuelling) Team preparation prior to any event is irrelevant to this thread, although vital on the actual race. If i can add further, the reason IS team preparation. If they all had unlimited time, money, skill etc, all the cars would be optimized to the same level.

The control of fuelling on the overrun is not that critical. If its overfuelling, then largely its just a waste of fuel. On your road car no fuel will be entering the engine at all during overun with the throttle totally off. The reason i reference the track support/prep issue, is it seems clear to me that many cars that are racing are far from fully prepared. In other words they have run out of time, money, skill etc to fully complete the task. If you are pushed for any of these, then tuning your engine under full throttle takes precedence over its behaviour in the overun. It also removes the need to concern yourself with the transition from zero fuel back to fuelling when the driver commands power. As tdi say, it has potential to be an advantage, but releatively small in the overall objective. The car we were supporting had totally inadequate alignment set up, but the focus had been totally engine based until now as that was the area demanding the most attention. Second in class, refers to where several different classes race in the same race, in this case the Porsche open. Overall it was 15th or similar, but the the other classes operate different criteria such as greater power.

Because its not that important. Yes in an ideal world the thing would be fully mapped, but other things doubtless take priority. Ask yourself this, why do all these race teams turn up at a circuit then seemingly rebuild/assemble their car. Why not do it before you arrive in a nice workshop? Or arrive at a 24 hour race with no headlights, then spend most of the day fabricating a lamp bar? It gets dark most nights! I'm new to track support, but we unloaded the car we had repaired and prepped, prior to its race, stuck the numbers on, checked the fluids (again) then looked around and wondered what we were failing to do! Still came second in class.