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E55ex_Racer, Thanks again. 'Twas at Kipling in Hemel Hempstead. Some increase indeed, perhaps explained by the change in location. If Tony could comment then I'd be grateful, but I guess prices are prices. If I could increase the prices for my business by 155% over 3 years then I would, in a shot! Oli.

E55ex_racer, Thanks again. I have just called up WIM, asking for a worst-case scenario price. Same answer - £185+VAT. That's over £100 increase in price from three years ago - as per my last post. I have cancelled the appointment I had for Monday (both in the light of the price and the fact that that date is no longer convenient for me) and will be shopping around elsewhere. I take the point that the final price may end up being less than that, but I'm not keen on paying £30 without being certain how much it may end up costing me. The fixed price was what bought me to WIM in the first place, but the change to this, plus that price increase (over 150%) in three years is too much. If I have missed something then please let me know. Oli.

Essex_Racer, Thanks. That gives me a price of £185, plus VAT. That is a LOT more than it was three years ago - my notes tell me it cost £85 (inc VAT) then. I take Tony's point that this may be a worst case scenario, but that's back to my original point. Last time I knew the cost would be £85. This time I know it will be at least £35 (imaging cost), and up to £217 (£185+VAT). That's a huge variation and potentially a big chunk of cash to shell out. Oli.

Chaps, Thanks for your answers. My question purely concerns the pricing model, hence the thread title. When I last visited WIM (a little over 3 years ago - I created this forum login just after my first visit there) there was no mention of an imaging price or anything like that. I had done a lot of suspension work on my car and deliberately chose a place which offered me a fixed price to set the whole lot up. Precisely as EssexRacer says, I knew how much it would cost before I even arrived at the place. That was the whole appeal, and the reason why I have recommended WIM a number of times on several specialist forums since then. When I called WIM yesterday I was told there would be an 'Imaging' cost, and the total cost would go up from there. "How much would I be paying?" - "Well sir, that depends upon what we find and what you want done and how difficult it is to do ... " I pointed out that this was not the original case (3 years ago), when there was a flat rate cost, and the gent at the end of the 'phone flatly denied that WIM had ever had any pricing model like that. Now, looking at the website, I can get no idea of any sort of cost whatsoever. "Buy Wheel Alignment" takes me to the blackboots page to buy some tyres - not what I want. Other links have some (very good) explanations of chassis dynamics, and some nice explanations of geometry machines, but no explanation of prices. I am actually booked in to WIM for next Monday, at 11.00am, but one of my tasks for today is to call some other companies and see whether there is someone who is a little closer to home who can give me a better idea of how much I am likely to end up paying. (Note - I am not looking for someone cheaper as I have no idea of how much WIM is going to charge - other than £35 for the 'imaging cost'. I am simply looking for someone who can give me an idea of how much the work is likely to cost - or even to give me a cap on the total cost. Currently I have no idea of either of these should I visit WIM.) Oli. ETA: If someone could give me an idea of these 'worst case scenario' prices then I'd be grateful. It's for a Porsche 944S2 (later model), should that be relevant.

Quickie, Has the pricing model for work being done at WIM changed? The reason I ask is that I had an alignment done at WIM a couple of years ago, and was quoted, up-front, a single price which would cover all work regardless of what was necessary. This was the reason I chose to have the work done at WIM as I knew the limit of how much it would cost; everywhere else worked on the basis that you paid an initial 'assessment' price, and other work was then costed on top of this, so the total bill was unknown until you had stumped up the initial £30 or so. About 3 years later, and I think it's about time for another alignment (3 years' worth of speedbumps will have taken it's toll). So I called up WIM again and was told that there is an "Imaging Price" of £35 and all extra work will be costed on top of this ... I queried this with the guy on the end of the telephone (not Tony), who swore blind that WIM have never operated a fixed price model. What has changed? Oli.

Tony, Good points all. Let's see what changes in the future. Oli.

I guess it is logical - the suspension will be knocked pretty hard every time you hit a bump, and this will have an effect over time. I guess that I had hoped that the finesse of the set-up would have lasted a bit longer ... ... BTW Tony, I did some investigation around the amount of movement available on the gearbox ... according to Porsche, movement of up to 7cm each way is quite normal, and nothing to worry about. Apparently the design of the drivechain, with the prop shaft running down a torque tube which goes the length of the car and bolts onto both the bellhousing and the gearbox, means that there is very little torque applied to the gearbox in this orientation as it is entirely braced by the torque tube. (There is, however, a very large torque applied in the other orientation under acceleration - as you would expect - and the gearbox should have very little movement if twisted in the fore/aft dimension.) Oli.

OK, I went back to Tony on Friday of last week to have the 2000 mile check done ... was interested to find out that the settings had wandered quite a bit from the settings it was left with previously, and apparently this can be down to hitting a bump in the road (think speedbump). Which kind of got me wondering how much benefit there is in setting a car to the level of precision that Tony undoubtably offers, if it can be knocked out so easily within the following 2000 miles. To cut a long story short, precise tyre tread depth measurements were taken and these will be monitored to see what effect the geometry is having on the tyre wear. I had the front wheels re-balanced again (free of charge). They were supposedly out by 10g on each side (apparently the balancing machine was re-calibrated earlier in the week.) However, the wheel wobble is still evident, it has just moved down from 80mph to 70mph ... Looks like I'll be back in another 2000 miles to see what has changed then. Oli.

Tony, Thanks - I'll call. (Having re-read my post of last night it sounded pretty grumpy - apologies. I am actually still chuffed to the nines with the handling! Thanks! The balancing was done by someone else, and a different business, so it was a bit off of me to gripe about it on here. Apologies again.) Oli.

OK, me back again. I have now covered a bit over 1000 miles since the alignment, and need to book the fine-tune session with Tony. I have sprayed the rear bolts with some anti-seize spray a couple of times, and will do it a couple of times more before I bring it in. The wrong thrust line is annoying me! Having said that, the greater annoyance is the poor balancing done by the tyre place on the front wheels. Not impressed. They weren't that bad before, but when they did them the second wheel needed two weights. (One 10g and one 5g). The 5g weight was stuck on while the wheel was on the balance machine, and fell off before the guy refitted the wheel to the car ... so he took it back to the balance machine and re-tested it, whereupon the machine told him it needed a 10g weight. Funny, as the one that fell off was a 5g weight ... the net result was a car that has vibrated at any speed over 80mph on a recent hoon around North Wales ... I'll talk to Kipling when I go back for the fine-tune and see what they say. Mark - good to have met you at WIM. If you could stand having a hanger-on, do drop me a line next time you make it to the 'Ring. I'll make it there sometime in the next few months! Oli.

Tony, Yes ... setting it up with the car at an angle at the side of the road, with a spirit level and ruler really didn't get it right did it! I was surprised at HOW far out I was - shows how accurate the kit you use is, eh? The worrying thing is that previously I have set all my cars up like this, so goodness only knows how far out they were! (Wheels doing reasonable impressions of a satellite-tracking dish, anyone?) Yes, I think that this is one stage of the puzzle which has not yet been cracked, and the fact that the thrust line is to the left, and the car tracks to the left, would suggest that just maybe relevant to the problem! I'll wholeheartedly go along with this. Thus far I have put no more than 80 miles on the car, most of them on a motorway. ALSO, I have found that shock absorbers take a good couple of hundred miles to settle. Time to get used to it is a very good idea, and I'm looking forward to a good blast on some North Wales roads, coming up in a couple of weeks time. This will mean that I have a much better idea of what I want. Thanks again, see you in a month or so. (ETA: I can't be your dream customer - I have seen your comments about German cars elsewhere on here!) Jon, If you are talking about here: http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h...23&t=414052 .. then yes, it was me. Your recommendation led me to WIM. Thank you. Oli.

Chaps, My first post, as I have just registered, as I visited WIM yesterday with a Porsche 944 S2. Observations ... I was very impressed by both the kit and the guy doing the work (Tony). The kit was technologically impressive (although apparently at the new place there will be even more impressive kit!) and Tony was both friendly and extremely knowledgeable. No question was too much trouble to answer (and I asked more than my fair share), and he took the time to show me what he was doing, didn't mind me getting under the car, his feet and anywhere else that looked interesting. Thanks! The reason I had the full alignment done were that I had just replaced the suspension (shocks front and rear, ARB bushes and steering tie rods). Everything was set to manufacturers spec, apart from the rear toe in/out, for which the adjustment bolts were seized. I'll apply some penetrant spray liberally over the coming month or so before returning for the check. This does mean that the thrust angle is not straight, which should be bourne in mind. Observations from before all this work was done (so these can be attributed to either new suspension or the alignment) are ... The car is slightly quicker to respond to the steering, and has lost the very annoying tendancy to lurch backwards and forwards unless you were very careful with the throttle and brake. It doesn't track 100% straight (probably down to the rear toe being still squiff). The centre point of the steering still feels a little vague, but this loads up fairly quickly once you get slightly off centre. Once off-centre, the steering feel is excellent. The turn-in is improved, but I guess it will never be that great on the car due to the layout (front engine, rear gearbox). However, what IS new is that you can fling it 'round fast corners at utterly ridiculous (almost comedy) speeds without it breaking off line! You can make the tyres chirp if you really try, but it remains very very balanced and neutral at all times. I haven't provoked the rear end yet to see how this breaks away, but I suspect that it will be a bit of a fight to get it out. It remains exceptionally flat when cornering as well - CD cases, spare change, wives and small furry animals may get thrown against the window on the outside of the corner, but the car remains very very flat on the road. (Flatter than any other car I have driven). And this is with the standard-size, weedy ARB's (which probably says more about my expectations than the ARB's, in all honesty.) It also seems to accelerate more crisply - the back doesn't fidget as much as it used to, and brakes more cleanly (I expect that stopping distances are reduced). The downside is that you are much more aware of what the road surface is like under the wheels, and you do feel a lot more of the bumps, both small and large. So, I'm pleased - thanks Tony. (I may add that I had both front wheels re-balanced by Kipling while I was there, and was pretty underwhelmed by this - they still shimmy at 80mph, which is very annoying. Glad that the alignment was so much more convincing!) I'm looking forward to being back in a month or so to have the rear toe adjusted. Oli.