bojcistv

Yes it certainly does a mile.....

Bit update on this nightmare. Last night I managed to change left drive shaft. It was in better condition than the one took of the car. There is significant play in the inner as well as in the outer CV joint. We took a car on the test drive and found that steering wheel is somehow stiffer and better handling but 50% of the vibration on the 120 km/h are still there!? We took car back on the jack and found that there is some play in the right drive shaft, more precisely in the inner CV joint. I moved the wheel about 1 cm approximately and my friend found that there is play inside the inner CV joint. The plan is to try found new spider with bearings to repair that inner joint to see if there will be vibrations still. Nightmare....

No it isn't on the car anymore. I dropped the tire.

Yes. Now I am feeling that vibration under my feet and through the car as well. Tomorrow I am going to buy one I found on scrap yard. 50 Euros. Here are the results of balancing on Hunter machinery This is results for my summer tires. This is for my winter tires. This is output for one of my winter tire that couldn't be balanced. Here is stated that Force matching won't get wheel in limit.

Yes I intent to do like that although I really don't know how that tinny play in the drive shaft could produce those vibrations....We had hard time to identify that is culprit for steering wheel shake.

Yes I will certainly check it on the site. But it is usual here to buy some part from scrap yard and if it isn't good you can get it back and take your money or get something else. I phoned to few auto parts store for new one and it is madly expensive over 300 KM (more than 150 Euros)!!!

So I've got back from my friend and here comes the results: We did dial gauge measuring and radial run out on front wheels are about 0,50 mm more or less and I don't think it could cause vibrations since it seems in the factory limitations (i saw somewhere 1,54 mm is upper limit for radial run out). Car jacked first on the left side and wheels run and spin on 120 km/ or more, than the same scenario on the right. Friend was under the car in canal and says there are vibrations on the steering wheel inner tie rod or tie rod on the left side on about 120 km/h or so while on the right there are no any vibrations no matter the speed. There is some play in the drive shaft on the left between inner and outer CV joint and he is putting his money drive shaft is causing the vibrations more precisely outer CV joint. I will try to find some used drive shaft on scrap yard and will see if it will change the situation.

I forgot to ask you Tony about some factory specs about radial run out limits, do you know how much is allowed on certain car? I read on some tires specialists sites that is 1,27 mm total radial run out for the wheel off the car or 1,54 mm on the car? I am going to measure both radial and lateral front wheels run out so I am interested are there any specific limits for Ford vehicles in that matter? Sure I will keep you informed. I don't want any one get through this hell like I do....

I will in the evening so I am coming back with the report. Honestly I would like it is balance issue than anything else, after all it is cheaper solution but after seeing what is Hunter capable to do I think my costs will be much much bigger with solving this. Thanks again Tony!

Well I don't know what does it do but it was shown on the screen something like this . On the left shown wheel near the red line was written 12 kg as some source of limit or what. After the man did the balancing the wheels everything was green as it is shown on pic above. As I figured out 12 kg is limited weight for radial run out movement...

As much as I saw two days ago there are no play in bearing or so but today I am going to one of my friend mechanic and we will repeat that with jacked car and he will be under to see if there is any play in joints. I managed to find dial gauge so I will use it today to measure run-out on the wheels and rims and compare it with the limited ones. Down there on Hunter machine they measured it but limitations shown there were as I can remember about 12 kilos on static balance no matter what model car is. I don't know if the Mondeo has different limitations for that or it is common no matter the type or brand?

I will try it when I get home and I then post the results here. I'd no regret weren't mechanic I was at said with drive train and suspension everything was ok and there were any plays. I will suggest him to try what I did in order to find any play if any would be there or I will have to change the mechanic. Once again thanks for the will to help me. Appreciate that!

Yes Tony it is really shame! The trouble is that place is in another town which is 150 km from my home so I can't go there so often. It was really my last hope with this. Vibration is so pretty much visible now. Starts at 120 km/h till 140 km/h and all car is under heavy vibration up and down. I did the experiment this morning where I put the jack under the lower arm ball joint on right than on the left side, got the wheel off, tight back 5 screws on the hub, ESP off and start engine. On the left side (driver side since it is LHV model ) on the 100 km/h aprox. I felt slightly vibrations through the steering wheel thought I must say it wasn't so odd or visible but I could sense it more than it was while I got right wheel in spin where I didn't notice almost any vibrations on the steering wheel. I can't find any play in the tie rods or inner tie rods or any where in the suspension. Maybe I have play in the inner CV joint on the left side but I can't notice it. Any way I phoned my friend who drives Mondeo estate and we will put his wheels on my car in order to see how it will look alike. I will update all infos. Before that I will try to find some dial run out gauge and try to measure run out on the tires as well as on the rims. Do you think it will be helpful? Thanks a lot for patience and will to help me.

Come back with Hunter GSP 9700 experience. I was today in town where they have that machine and did the balance as well as wheel alignment. Really amazing machine. They did the dynamic balance for my Uniroyal Rain Expert tires and found they are aren't in so bad shape. Wheels were inside run out limitations and they just put the weights on the rims like in any other common balancing. Everything is fine since the vibrations and steering wheel wobble are still there!!!! I mean car is running much smoother and steering is much better but primary vibrations are still there between 110 and 140 km/h!!! I am wondering how road surface influence on this steering wheel judder and wobble since I noticed on some sorts of road it isn't so noticeable but on some they are more than annoying? I am really sick of guessing and trying to find an answer among all those mechanics claims that everything is just fine with my car. One more question, could lower gear mount be culprit for those vibs? I know for sure the one isn't in so good shape and there is play inside on that but for me I can't see connection between that and steering wheel wobble and judder since in my case everything seems possible. Thanks for patience with patient....

It is very kind and I am very happy to hear it. I learn the language in the elementary school and that was long long time ago . Cheers

Well said Tony. Your approach is kinda so rare in today world it can be compared with the completely miracle. By the way those silly today's SOP's eliminate any staff initiative and need they think on their own and by their own since if there something were not described in the SOP's it is like not exist or not matching which sounds as an dogma (take it or leave it, no questioning at all...). It kills humans brain building and working out the way Google does since we all we need to know is to go in the browser and type "how to...." . We moved from original topic I've started here but any way I am happy we can share experiences and from my point of view it satisfies my need to explore and to learn. Thanks again Tony. P.S. I am not native speaker and don't mind about grammar and other languages issues and failures since I have feeling you can understand what I am want to say. Cheers.

Well we are living in fast lane world so fast fit is just an logical of product nowadays thinking it will solve everything. Big money is in the game so the common customer become just an volley they need to pay all those managers theory and to check whether it works in practice. One very nice example of it: On mondeo tdci with 2.0 130 HP engine it is well known trouble with the electronic actuator for variable nozzle turbocharger who is being stick by creating carbon deposits on the exhaust side. When it is happen garage following Ford's SOP's solve issue by mounting completely new turbocharger and costs of that operation is more than 1100 Euros!? Other solution? Yes there is. You can loose the cat and put some MrMuscle oven cleaner inside VNT geometry unit and after 20 minutes of letting that foam inside to done the work put the cat back and turn on the engine so dissolved carbon deposits get out. Problem solved! Material and labor costs 20 Euros max. So for 55 times less expense you can solve that very serious issue. Fortunately, here is the internet with countless forums and sites where you can find other people experiences and solutions as well as this forum is where you can not just to learn much from other people experience and examples but also from really altruistic founder of this place . From my side, thank you very much sir!

When you talking about it my friend had an trouble with knocking noise on the left side on his Mondeo and when he got to the official Ford garage they heard the sound (so it wasn't only in my friends head) but their answer was "It should be like that!?". I advised him to check his shocks since I had an similar situation and he did it. Off sure culprit was worn shock on the front left side and the silly part of the story young guy who still goes in the school and who worked on practice in one independent Ford garage here, found that trouble very easy following procedure described in the school books!!! I have impression that nowadays mechanics aren't interested to do any repairs more complicated than changing the motor oil, fuel, air and oil filters and eventually some bulbs.

Yes something like that is present here too. It is more than grey area since in most cases you don't have even basic SOP's neither any garage owner is demanded to have any of it. Some of my friends who own some garages told me were they follow every producer SOP's for deal with their parts more people to deal with the papers should be employed then car mechanics. Everyone build walls to protect their own skin so we little common people are completely unprotected even in the lights of Consumers protection Bill/Laws regulation since the articles of that paper are more than silly when you (if you ever) get to the point you are going to appeal or start any procedure against the any garage (since it is very hard and so expensive to even try to prove that damage had done by direct acting of the garage in creating that consequence). In generally, cause of that people in garages thinks I am an lunatic who just wants to walks from garage to garage in order to solve some silly vibration that exist only into my head!!! I am thinking about "Carry some gun and speak silent" method for getting their attention

So we in Bosnia aren't worst in the world, aren't we . I am not saying I am glad cause of it but for me as common man it is pretty hard to believe that in UK as a part of the Western world and considered as developed country such things are even possible....It seems that everywhere in the planet people do on their jobs in the way they don't interfere with at all, they don't want to get involved in their own and basic job and if you are showing any initiative or hunger for knowledge you would be labeled as an "smart as..." I am also amazed by the size of myth and legends presence in the work of nowadays mechanics (you can't mix mineral and synthetic engine oils since it will destroy your engine, there are no such things like run out in tire lateral direction since it is annihilated by cars weight and so on...) I am an lawyer and I might say that in some things about automotive I am more in knowledge then so many so called "experienced" mechanics just because on the end of the day I am surfing some half and hour or so on the internet and read something about what i am interested in. Do they have any internet surfing about basic terms of their job? Unfortunately no.... Any way thanks for the interesting in my trouble with this issue. I will update this issue in the saturday after get back from Hunter's miracle machinery

I am going in the service with that machine. Unfortunately it is 130 km from my home so I will have to do it in saturday. It is amazing that no mechanic here in my town don't know about "match mounting, radial force variation, lateral run out" or such terms. Just do the common balancing which is obviously not enough. Or they are not interesting since the most drivers are satisfied with the normal imbalance issues solved that way here. In the end it is such a shame professionals don't want to learn or to improve their business.

Drive-train checked and mechanics found everything in great shape. No air or play in any joint or suspension parts.

Interesting. I was in garage today and mechanic who previously did the balancing on the front tires said something like you did Tony. And he obviously thought I am lunatic and someone who should go to the treatment. He said too "wheels can't be unbalanced by itself" but he took my car to try since he did previous balancing. He got back pretty much confused and on the edge to apologize me. His statement to his mate mechanic "Car is shaking up and down like driving on the egg shapped wheels between 120 and 140 km/h and steering wheel shake up and down too" and he said they can't solve it since they don't have machinery for it. Their machine just do common balance. I will try Hunter machine and after that I will sell the car and close account on forum. Thanks.

Tony thanks for quick response. I spoke with the Hunter certified distributor in Croatia and he pointed me to the people in another town here in Bosnia who are equipped with the Hunter Gsp9700 machinery. I phoned them and they told me their machine do static and dynamic balancing and simulate road condition and very kind guy mentioned run out measuring and matching wheel and tire run out points in order to annihilate forces by whom imbalances are produces. In this recent two years with my Uniroyal tires I feel this wheel and tires run out points aren't match since the vibrations on my car between 120 and 140 are like i am driving on egg shaped wheels. Some of it vibs had been solved with hydro bushings replacement but some of it hadn't. The last guy who did the balancing of my rear wheels was really old and very experienced mechanic did something that no one hasn't done before. He turned inflated tire on the rim for about 180 degrees and I asked him what did he do since he had done it without any measuring or putting on any machine. He said it will most probably solve my complain on rear side vibs and he was in right. After I had been driven some time on highway I couldn't recognize my own car. It was smooth and such a pleasant drive. Few days later vibs on the front wheels occurred and in recent days those vibs increased so I thought I may to try find the garage equipped with the machinery who does the same like you have in your garage Tony since I think it is my trouble in fact. Those run-out non-match points between wheel and tire. The guy who did the try to solve that did that without any machine and i think it is crucial to be done by proper machine like those previous stated Hunter machine is.

Here I come again So, after few month of trying to find out what is going on with my tyre balance I found this post here on site http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=3887&hl=%2Broad+%2Bforce and it seems very simmilar to my problem. I wrote about silly vibrations I had through all the car on 120 to 140 km/h speed. Most of those cured with replacing of hydro bushings on lower arms but (there is always those "but") even though I have changed it I felt slight vibration through my steering wheel or through my "butt" on the seats. It's very variate since on some road surfaces it occurs but on some doesn't but most the time I can feel it in driving and it makes me very nervous and I really don't know what to do more. Surfing on the internet I found so many testimonies of people suffering those strange vibrations on the steering wheel that couldn't have been solved on matter how much balancing and re-balancing has been done. Generally speaking in my own case balancing is working only few days. What does it mean? Well, after I do the balancing in the tyre shop or garage things are changed positive (although not completely solved) and few days later and few hundreds km driven those vibs are coming back regularly. I see people speaking about road force balancing as the method of perfect matching rim with the tyre and solving as many of those imbalance as possible today. While I was reading the post linked here it crossed my mind once while I had done rear wheels balancing in one tyre shop equipped with the old fashioned balancer machine I have seen the old guy who worked there turn the tyre on the rim by some 180 degrees or so and after that balancing I got out on highway and I was amazed by the smoothness of ride in my car. No vibs, nothing.... Unfortunately after few weeks vibs were back on the front wheels again but not so much and as i said not on every surface. Since few days ago those vibs become pretty bad and it feels like all car is shaking (it is so annoying for me....) while i am driving at between 120 and 140 km/h speed. I don't know if any one in my region has that road force balance machine (i am in doubt were any of the mechanics here has ever heard about it) but I see the guy with the BMW who start the topic I linked here talk about stud plate method Tony used in way to balance tyre. Is it possible to check those run outs of the rim/tyre matchings by using this method or I will be pushed to find the shop equipped with this miracle Hunter GP road force balance machinery in the Balkan region ? Thanks in advance.... Bojan