tastyweat
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Posts posted by tastyweat
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Understeer is desireable amongst OEM because if you understeer off the road you'll hit whatever stops you head-on, rather than sideways. More bodywork between the driver and the tree/lampost/etc see ?
And that's why so many manufacturers are going FWD
I would much rather avoid the tree/lampost/etc... which is possible (and quite simple) to control with oversteer... whereas understeer is very hard to control... ie once you've gone, you've gone... unless you're keen enough to left-foot-brake.
Unfortunately... it's evident that most people seem to (slam on the) right-foot-brake when they feel the back end out... from my experience of teaching people how to drift anyway... just comes naturally to them.
Whereas any person who knows how to drive will tell them it's the last thing they want to do!
So certainly in their interest... FWD/understeer is alightly preferential in a tough situation.
So what's better under or oversteering? I've understeered a couple of times and that was scary...I went to corner and the car carried on straight ahead and then turned so I ended up on the other side of the road!!
At least when I oversteered I still felt I had some control and there's less chance of crashing into an oncoming car? The rear seats are back in now so will test it again tomorrow and Friday, see what happens now...
For me... oversteer is better... it's very simple to control & very easy to naturally react quickly without too much input needed. The main thing is, if you react quick enough - you will (almost) always be able to control it...
Whereas understeer, once you're at that limit... you're travelling in a straight line and that's the end of the story until you slow down enough to turn or balance the car with left-foot-braking.
For safety on the road "under", for fun and track "over".Really depends on how the driver is trained...
For safety on the road "under", for fun and track "over".Why do you think I prefer understeer then?
Cos it feels safer?
Sorry I meant I prefer oversteer from what I've experienced, I didn't like understeer at all
Because you can control it
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Counter-steering slightly... or... I take it you're talking about the mondeo - so that will be a FWD car right? If so... more power can also minimise oversteer (but only in a FWD car, generally not a RWD car - albeit there are exceptions).
Too much power to the front though & you'll get understeer... something which I think is ALOT more dangerous than oversteer.
Not too easy to explain really - it's the kind of thing you could do with someone who knows what they're doing sitting next to you / showing you how it's done.
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Something else has come up I need to go to... still waiting on the confirmation, but it's quite likely I will be pulling out
Sorry... not normally a flake! -
polar moment of inertia .
Tony,
can you define please?
I don't understand the definitioins that come up when I google.
h
I'll explain in bits... and then add it all together
Acceleration / braking / turning causes a torque moment... for example, when accelerating, the front of the car gets "lifted" off the ground and the rear gets pushed in to the ground... understand that bit?
Torque is a tendancy for a force to cause a rotation around an axis... the axis in the case of acceleration, would be wherever the centre of mass in the car is & would be lateral (from left to right)... dependant on the exact weight distribution. So, it would pivot about a lateral line through the car.
Torsion is how an object can twist due to an applied torque... ie, the metal in a car isn't strong enough to never bend under torque... when cornering/accel/braking there will normally be a little bit of warping of the chassis.
A polor moment of inertia is a prediction of a certain objects ability to resist torsion. ie, it gives a rough idea of when the chassis will start to bend/twist/warp & helps predict when it will change shape so much, it actually affects the handling/behaviour of the vehicle etc
Such predictions can be used to help set up a car to take in to account this warping of the chassis and do the best to compensate for it.
Hope that makes sense to you bud, ask if it doesn't
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You're oversteer instincts are probably from your karting days
Don't you mean oversteer "control" instincts? hehe
You're most likely correct... have to react a lot quicker in a kart than you do in a car... hence going in to a tyre wall from 109MPH once (thankfully it was multi-layered!)
Was really pushing for a good lap time & by the time the front left locked up, it was too late to correct... oopsie!
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Hey,
Pretty new to this forum, but heard a lot (of good)
Don't suppose you will be doing any discounted calibration on sunday?
Or perhaps do the free calibration you mentioned on MX5Nutz on a sort-of-charity based basis (cheeky me)?
I'm a student and would love to get my alignment/geometry sorted, but can't afford your normal price
Had to ask... worst you can say is no
Put my name down please, need to be in your area on sunday anyway - so it's perfect timing
Name added...... I will be doing some calibrations on Sunday but these will chosen at random.
Fair enough, cheers... always worth being cheeky from time to time, even if it doesn't get you anywhere hehe.
See you sunday
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One small example of car vs. driver...
I went to a gravel play-area near me the other day with a friend.
In a Mazda MX5.
Started showing him how to drift etc and he keeps spinning out when he tries! Same thing happened to him in the snow/ice in february, causing him to have an accident.
I thought things felt a bit perculiar when in the car with him driving, so had a closer look at what he was doing.
He was slamming on the brakes when the car started to slide, taking his foot off the accelerator completely (ie, not left foot braking).
After a bit more instruction and very expressed "Don't touch the foot brake for what we're doing here!" (was just teaching him how to kick the back end out under power... no weight shift, not even handbrake)... plus a lecture on why to never slam on the brakes when you're sliding like that (we're both physicists, heh).
Talked to him about it and got the response "was i?"... he didn't even realise he was touching the brake... he said he thought it must have been instictive.
I really didn't understand lol... I've never had a problem like that, my instinct is to control the car (probably due to my racing experience... although I don't remember ever having a problem like that).
I think it might also have something to do with the age you first get in a car or drive something with four wheels.
He had never driven anything on 4 wheels until after his 17th birthday... I, on the other hand, started driving full size cars when I was 3 (steering or pedals, lol) and started karting when I was 6, progressing to gearbox karts further down the line, along with rallying etc etc.
So his instinct is to do perhaps what he was tought by his driving instructor to pass his test and was never really given a chance to push the limit of grip... the person the op is mentioning might be similar?
... just an idea
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Thanks for the comprehensive reply, much appreciated
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Hey,
Pretty new to this forum, but heard a lot (of good)
Don't suppose you will be doing any discounted calibration on sunday?
Or perhaps do the free calibration you mentioned on MX5Nutz on a sort-of-charity based basis (cheeky me)?
I'm a student and would love to get my alignment/geometry sorted, but can't afford your normal price
Had to ask... worst you can say is no
Put my name down please, need to be in your area on sunday anyway - so it's perfect timing
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Hey,
I've done a search on this and come up short, so sorry if this has already been asked.
I'm curious... what are the differences between the various configs I keep hearing people talk about?
Cheers
Geometry vs Driver
in General Problems / Discussions
Posted
Yeah - more likely to have a side-impact with oversteer... which is obviously a weaker point with less crumple zone... so bad
I just prefer to avoid the crash all-together and control the oversteer.
Having said that though... the majority of drivers gut reaction is to hit that brake as soon as anything starts going wrong... which is quite often helpful on FWD cars as it shifts the weight back to the front (generally), where it's needed.
Obviously there are lots of exceptions to these circumstances... just general rules.