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geo or 4 wheel alignment???


andy24stkel
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hi everyone just joined up today as recommended by essex racer on the meg site, he told me to join up because we were having a discussion about getting the geometry set up on my st24 and i said a garage quoted me £25 for the front or£35 for front and rear which he said was impossible and should cost alot more than that! but anyway i took my car down to tyres galore in leicester for 2 new tyres on the front and asked them to sort out the alignments on all the wheels due to excessive tyre wear on the front two as i had changed the wishbones a few months ago since then the tyres have seemed to dissapear on the outside edge within no time at all. so i watched them set it up with all the kit attached to the wheels etc. the guy came over with a printout showing that the two front wheels were toeing in too much and the nearside rear was toeing out!! so he said he could sort it out for the £35 which i was quoted, i said fine, went for a walk while they did it got back and he said he had done the nearside front wheel but couldnt do the offside due to the track rod end being seized up! i said well have you tried heating it up and he said it was nt worth doing that because it would knacker the grease up in the track rod end!! which i was quite amazed by this excuse.he did the rear one aswell which only needed slight adjustment anyway. so when i asked if i had to still pay for a half job they said of course sir as weve spent too much time on it trying to undo the track rod end and said if i can get a new one or get it undone they'll charge me just £15 to sort it out when i take it back so left quite unhappy also with steering off centre when in a straight line. but theyve gave me a alignment report essex racer suggested i send it to "tony" on here to have a look at to see what they actually acheived so ive scanned it just wondered where to send it to? thanks in advance andy

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the guy i right about the track rod end, the only time they should be heated up is when removing them to fit new ones, heating can damage the rubber gaiters and lead to the grease inside boiling resulting in excsive wear due to increased friction, it is also failable on an m.o.t if the tester spots that the t.r.e has been heated.

 

as for the geometry basicly the rear toe has to be adjusted before the front toe, so you set both rear toes as they should be, this will give you a thrust line of '0' meaning that the center line of the total rear toe is exactly down the centre of the car. the steeri wheel is then clamped in the straight ahead position and the front toe on both sides is adjusted to give the ideal toe on both wheels, this will automaticly leave the 'steer ahead' at '0', if olny one front toe is adjusted then either the front total toe is incorrect or the stering wheel will be off centre,

 

what needs to happen is the seized track rod end needs to either be free'd off safely or replaced and the geometry re-checked and adjusted, i cant believe they didnt check them before starting to avoid wasting everyones time and your money.

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the guy i right about the track rod end, the only time they should be heated up is when removing them to fit new ones, heating can damage the rubber gaiters and lead to the grease inside boiling resulting in excsive wear due to increased friction, it is also failable on an m.o.t if the tester spots that the t.r.e has been heated.

 

as for the geometry basicly the rear toe has to be adjusted before the front toe, so you set both rear toes as they should be, this will give you a thrust line of '0' meaning that the center line of the total rear toe is exactly down the centre of the car. the steeri wheel is then clamped in the straight ahead position and the front toe on both sides is adjusted to give the ideal toe on both wheels, this will automaticly leave the 'steer ahead' at '0', if olny one front toe is adjusted then either the front total toe is incorrect or the stering wheel will be off centre,

 

what needs to happen is the seized track rod end needs to either be free'd off safely or replaced and the geometry re-checked and adjusted, i cant believe they didnt check them before starting to avoid wasting everyones time and your money.

hmm yes a waste of my time and money it did seem quite busy there with every one doing two jobs at once, even the gaffer their was answering the phone in the office then running out fitting an exhaust whilst also fitting a tyre at the same time!! maybe i should just take it somewhere else with a fresh t.r.e with me for them to pop on at the same time, but its finding a place you can trust to get the job done properly as ive learned yesterday!! also you mention the thrust angle should be "0" well on the report sheet its down as 0.03' so is that wrong for starters???

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Hello.... Reads like a catalogue of errors but i need to see that report... You can link it here from an external source like photo bucket or email it to me from wim contacts directly from your pc image file.

Once read we can identify the error then approach the company concerned inviting them to address the problem.

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Hello.... Reads like a catalogue of errors but i need to see that report... You can link it here from an external source like photo bucket or email it to me from wim contacts directly from your pc image file.

Once read we can identify the error then approach the company concerned inviting them to address the problem.

hi whats the actual email address so i can send it to you its all scanned ready to fly, also not to fussed about contacting them just like to know if its right or not and if not i,ll take it some where else to avoid giving them more money!!

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Hello.... Reads like a catalogue of errors but i need to see that report... You can link it here from an external source like photo bucket or email it to me from wim contacts directly from your pc image file.

Once read we can identify the error then approach the company concerned inviting them to address the problem.

hi whats the actual email address so i can send it to you its all scanned ready to fly, also not to fussed about contacting them just like to know if its right or not and if not i,ll take it some where else to avoid giving them more money!!

Best way is go in to wim-web (home from here) then contacts, then send the mail through enquiries.

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the guy i right about the track rod end, the only time they should be heated up is when removing them to fit new ones, heating can damage the rubber gaiters and lead to the grease inside boiling resulting in excsive wear due to increased friction, it is also failable on an m.o.t if the tester spots that the t.r.e has been heated.

 

When Tony did my geo he heated it up to adjust it. Or are we talking about the nut that holds it onto the hub as you obviously can't heat that up, but then why would it need to be just to make an adjustment? ;)

 

My MOT passed as well and you can see where it's been heated...

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the guy i right about the track rod end, the only time they should be heated up is when removing them to fit new ones, heating can damage the rubber gaiters and lead to the grease inside boiling resulting in excsive wear due to increased friction, it is also failable on an m.o.t if the tester spots that the t.r.e has been heated.

 

When Tony did my geo he heated it up to adjust it. Or are we talking about the nut that holds it onto the hub as you obviously can't heat that up, but then why would it need to be just to make an adjustment? ;)

 

My MOT passed as well and you can see where it's been heated...

Heating the steel lock nuts is fine. What you cannot do is heat the ends since these are cast. If you heat these you burn the Carbon and severely weaken the cast.

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the guy i right about the track rod end, the only time they should be heated up is when removing them to fit new ones, heating can damage the rubber gaiters and lead to the grease inside boiling resulting in excsive wear due to increased friction, it is also failable on an m.o.t if the tester spots that the t.r.e has been heated.

 

When Tony did my geo he heated it up to adjust it. Or are we talking about the nut that holds it onto the hub as you obviously can't heat that up, but then why would it need to be just to make an adjustment? ;)

 

My MOT passed as well and you can see where it's been heated...

Heating the steel lock nuts is fine. What you cannot do is heat the ends since these are cast. If you heat these you burn the Carbon and severely weaken the cast.

hello again cant find the wimweb "enquiries" struggling to find my way around at the moment i will have try again tomorrow eve as i must log off now as got to be at work for 5. 0 clock in the mornin thanks for the help so far though

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Here you go mate - enquiries@wheels-inmotion.co.uk

cheers mate still struggled to do it but the darling missus came to the rescue and sorted it out for me so i think tony should have it now,

also i nipped in walkers tyre services on the way home from work and explained the situation and they said bring the car in and they might be able to warm it up slightly and have a go at releasing it then they'll re,do the tracking for £30 plus vat

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Here you go mate - enquiries@wheels-inmotion.co.uk

cheers mate still struggled to do it but the darling missus came to the rescue and sorted it out for me so i think tony should have it now,

It's coming through as an "unknown file type" and won't open. Can you save the file in another format a re-send....

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Here you go mate - enquiries@wheels-inmotion.co.uk

cheers mate still struggled to do it but the darling missus came to the rescue and sorted it out for me so i think tony should have it now,

It's coming through as an "unknown file type" and won't open. Can you save the file in another format a re-send....

ive tried it again notsure why it wont open missus gone bed now so she cant help me out if it does'nt work this time can i fax it to you tomorrow?? if so do you have a fax number?? sorry about this, not very handy on the pc as you can probably tell :)

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Here you go mate - enquiries@wheels-inmotion.co.uk

cheers mate still struggled to do it but the darling missus came to the rescue and sorted it out for me so i think tony should have it now,

It's coming through as an "unknown file type" and won't open. Can you save the file in another format a re-send....

ive tried it again notsure why it wont open missus gone bed now so she cant help me out if it does'nt work this time can i fax it to you tomorrow?? if so do you have a fax number?? sorry about this, not very handy on the pc as you can probably tell :)

right ive now moved it into my documents and emailed it from there now you should be able to open it now i hope :)

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Here you go mate - enquiries@wheels-inmotion.co.uk

cheers mate still struggled to do it but the darling missus came to the rescue and sorted it out for me so i think tony should have it now,

It's coming through as an "unknown file type" and won't open. Can you save the file in another format a re-send....

ive tried it again notsure why it wont open missus gone bed now so she cant help me out if it does'nt work this time can i fax it to you tomorrow?? if so do you have a fax number?? sorry about this, not very handy on the pc as you can probably tell :)

right ive now moved it into my documents and emailed it from there now you should be able to open it now i hope :)

 

Nope..... from the scanner you should save it as a jpeg file. I am getting the file but it have no type attached so i cannot open it.

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Here you go mate - enquiries@wheels-inmotion.co.uk

cheers mate still struggled to do it but the darling missus came to the rescue and sorted it out for me so i think tony should have it now,

It's coming through as an "unknown file type" and won't open. Can you save the file in another format a re-send....

ive tried it again notsure why it wont open missus gone bed now so she cant help me out if it does'nt work this time can i fax it to you tomorrow?? if so do you have a fax number?? sorry about this, not very handy on the pc as you can probably tell :)

right ive now moved it into my documents and emailed it from there now you should be able to open it now i hope :)

 

Nope..... from the scanner you should save it as a jpeg file. I am getting the file but it have no type attached so i cannot open it.

ok got the missus on the case again and now you should definitely be able to view it, she is more computer literate than me

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Here you go mate - enquiries@wheels-inmotion.co.uk

cheers mate still struggled to do it but the darling missus came to the rescue and sorted it out for me so i think tony should have it now,

It's coming through as an "unknown file type" and won't open. Can you save the file in another format a re-send....

ive tried it again notsure why it wont open missus gone bed now so she cant help me out if it does'nt work this time can i fax it to you tomorrow?? if so do you have a fax number?? sorry about this, not very handy on the pc as you can probably tell :graduated:

right ive now moved it into my documents and emailed it from there now you should be able to open it now i hope :thumbsup_anim:

 

Nope..... from the scanner you should save it as a jpeg file. I am getting the file but it have no type attached so i cannot open it.

ok got the missus on the case again and now you should definitely be able to view it, she is more computer literate than me

any news yet about the report that i faxed to you today? cheers andy

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Here you go mate - enquiries@wheels-inmotion.co.uk

cheers mate still struggled to do it but the darling missus came to the rescue and sorted it out for me so i think tony should have it now,

It's coming through as an "unknown file type" and won't open. Can you save the file in another format a re-send....

ive tried it again notsure why it wont open missus gone bed now so she cant help me out if it does'nt work this time can i fax it to you tomorrow?? if so do you have a fax number?? sorry about this, not very handy on the pc as you can probably tell :graduated:

right ive now moved it into my documents and emailed it from there now you should be able to open it now i hope :thumbsup_anim:

 

Nope..... from the scanner you should save it as a jpeg file. I am getting the file but it have no type attached so i cannot open it.

ok got the missus on the case again and now you should definitely be able to view it, she is more computer literate than me

any news yet about the report that i faxed to you today? cheers andy

Did you? what number did you send it to....

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Here you go mate - enquiries@wheels-inmotion.co.uk

cheers mate still struggled to do it but the darling missus came to the rescue and sorted it out for me so i think tony should have it now,

It's coming through as an "unknown file type" and won't open. Can you save the file in another format a re-send....

ive tried it again notsure why it wont open missus gone bed now so she cant help me out if it does'nt work this time can i fax it to you tomorrow?? if so do you have a fax number?? sorry about this, not very handy on the pc as you can probably tell :graduated:

right ive now moved it into my documents and emailed it from there now you should be able to open it now i hope :thumbsup_anim:

 

Nope..... from the scanner you should save it as a jpeg file. I am getting the file but it have no type attached so i cannot open it.

ok got the missus on the case again and now you should definitely be able to view it, she is more computer literate than me

any news yet about the report that i faxed to you today? cheers andy

Did you? what number did you send it to....

01923249762

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any news yet about the report that i faxed to you today? cheers andy

Did you? what number did you send it to....

01923249762

 

Looks good i will check tomorrow.... in the mean time pm me a contact number i case i need it.

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any news yet about the report that i faxed to you today? cheers andy

Did you? what number did you send it to....

01923249762

 

Looks good i will check tomorrow.... in the mean time pm me a contact number i case i need it.

ok will do, thanks again

hi there, so i decided to have a go at undoing the locknut on the t.r.e on monday morning which suprisingly came undone with little effort! which then i took the car back to tyres and exhausts galore for them to re do the tracking told them that id undone the locknut so they shouldnt have any problems. returned about an hour later and the guy said it wasnt the locknut that was the problem it was the steering arm seized in the t.r.e and the only way to do it was to heat it up and remove the t.r.e and replace it with a new one, so i said how much and he rang up their suppliers and then quoted me £58 to do it including the tracking but couldnt do it until wednesday!! so i told them not to bother and went and bought my own t.r.e from unipart costing £13.87! took the car down to walkers tyre services and politeley asked them if they could do it for me. a guy who i work with told me to go there and mention his name :wub: and the guy on reception said "of course sir get it on the ramps and we'll sort it out" it did take two of them to get it off, one heating it up while the other one turning the steering arm, it was extremely tight as it was creaking with every little turn!! popped the new one on then even tracked it up for me within an hour, but i didnt get a printout or receipt of the final tracking results due to paying through the back door if you know what i mean, just had to give the guy who did it a £15 tip, but everything feels spot on with the steering wheel in the right position than before so i hope my new tyres will last a bit longer than last time :rolleyes_anim: cheers for your help andy. also i was thinking that national tyre do a free tracking check, maybe id get a printout from them if i asked them to check it for me?

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