MacRS200 Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 To add my little bit to the above. The set up will settle with time/miles as said above. The pre-load and damping settings are very much personal to the type of roads you drive on and how you drive. Your car will lend valuable information toward others that might follow the same path (when released)...... in view of how things evolved time and time again was you surprised how the coils affected the Geom. The answer is yes I was surprised and also at the variations we had between checks. BTW I need to come and see you again Doc, will call you in the week. Bit of a mission these coilovers arent they! In all honesty I dont even know what preload is, how does it work? BTW, I understand what you mean with letting them settle etc, but I dont fancy going back at cost 10 times. So...I was thinking..get them set up...settle...go back again and thats it? Do I really need to go back so many times? Obviously for perfection yes, but Im not racing driver, go on track like 3 times a year max (or planning to)...would it be worth it? Preload is where you compress the springs with no load (weight) on them, hence the term The effect depends on the spring type you have. If the spring rate is linear e.g. for every 10kg of load you put on the spring compresses 1mm and never varies, then preloading the spring will just lift the car and reduce the amount the spring can compress before going "solid". If you have progressive springs where the spring rate increases the more you compress it, preload will make the suspension stiffer as you are starting at a higher rate. Hope that makes sense. Also as a thought on the tyres part, if you run say 1000 miles on "part worn" tyres and the tyres have uneven wear would you not be putting loads on the suspension that are also uneven. In other words the suspension would not settle as it would with new tyres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 MacRS200 with the knowledge you have regarding coilovers and the set-up you should be called the 'Coil King' .......... when i have my new centre i am looking forward to that 'weeks training' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacRS200 Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 MacRS200 with the knowledge you have regarding coilovers and the set-up you should be called the 'Coil King' .......... when i have my new centre i am looking forward to that 'weeks training' Very nice of you to say so Tony I am truly flattered. When we started it was a case of "The blind leading the blind" now I think it is more "In the valley of the blind the one eyed man is King" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 MacRS200 with the knowledge you have regarding coilovers and the set-up you should be called the 'Coil King' .......... when i have my new centre i am looking forward to that 'weeks training' Very nice of you to say so Tony I am truly flattered. When we started it was a case of "The blind leading the blind" now I think it is more "In the valley of the blind the one eyed man is King" indeed... twas a day to remember when the 'Tezza' went arse up looking at each other with our faces set on stun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacRS200 Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 MacRS200 with the knowledge you have regarding coilovers and the set-up you should be called the 'Coil King' .......... when i have my new centre i am looking forward to that 'weeks training' Very nice of you to say so Tony I am truly flattered. When we started it was a case of "The blind leading the blind" now I think it is more "In the valley of the blind the one eyed man is King" indeed... twas a day to remember when the 'Tezza' went arse up looking at each other with our faces set on stun Um.............Yeh, that I feel will be one of the great unsolved mysteries of the 21st Century. As bit of background for others, we jacked the car up, shortened the dampers 30mm, put the wheels back on and the back of the car was 30mm higher than when we started Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 MacRS200 with the knowledge you have regarding coilovers and the set-up you should be called the 'Coil King' .......... when i have my new centre i am looking forward to that 'weeks training' Very nice of you to say so Tony I am truly flattered. When we started it was a case of "The blind leading the blind" now I think it is more "In the valley of the blind the one eyed man is King" indeed... twas a day to remember when the 'Tezza' went arse up looking at each other with our faces set on stun Um.............Yeh, that I feel will be one of the great unsolved mysteries of the 21st Century. As bit of background for others, we jacked the car up, shortened the dampers 30mm, put the wheels back on and the back of the car was 30mm higher than when we started And we laughed and laughed 'not' ........... valuable learning curve in truth... i think the best way to do something right is to understand why it has gone wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee Posted May 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2006 Well, I havent had the change to call in yet, but after seeing these horror story threads, Im going to have to get my ass in gear! Better check over all my tyres also for wear! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee Posted May 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 Well, Im going today to get my panhard rod and coilovers set up. Let you know how it goes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 Well, Im going today to get my panhard rod and coilovers set up. Let you know how it goes! Any pictures would be welcomed..... Information like height/load ratio and any Geometry reports if done especially... wim awaits your return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 Well, Im going today to get my panhard rod and coilovers set up. Let you know how it goes! are you on D2`s Gee? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee Posted May 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 Yes I'm on D2's. Fiited my panhard rod and setup alignment, camber etc. My car was already lowered, dont think they touched the ride height. I mentioned the preload was out and I wanted the damping set for street, but I dont know if this was done actually, I got chatting and forgot! Here is my print out: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v679/GeeUK/img026.jpg I havent drove it much since getting it setup, but when I hold the wheel straight the car finally seems to drive in a straight line. But, would I be being stupid if I thought the car should remain in a straight line on a straight road if I took my hands of the wheel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 Yes I'm on D2's. Fiited my panhard rod and setup alignment, camber etc. My car was already lowered, dont think they touched the ride height. I mentioned the preload was out and I wanted the damping set for street, but I dont know if this was done actually, I got chatting and forgot! Here is my print out: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v679/GeeUK/img026.jpg I havent drove it much since getting it setup, but when I hold the wheel straight the car finally seems to drive in a straight line. But, would I be being stupid if I thought the car should remain in a straight line on a straight road if I took my hands of the wheel? The Castor positions are in conflict! nsf +0 26' osf -022'.... nominal stock is +1deg 25'. no wonder the car feels strange... the camber positions also are in dispute... but we can discuss that later. Did the shop explain any concerns toward the Castor disparity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee Posted May 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 The Castor positions are in conflict! nsf +0 26' osf -022'.... nominal stock is +1deg 25'. no wonder the car feels strange... the camber positions also are in dispute... but we can discuss that later. Did the shop explain any concerns toward the Castor disparity? Man, they told me a few things...but it all went over my head! Cant remember if it was camber or caster, but they could only get the driver side so far?? If that makes any sense?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee Posted May 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 Also, if I let go of the wheel, it immediately pulls to the left...is there any other reason it would do this, or can you see in the settings why this has happended? What do you suggest? When I was there, it was building for the new system he is getting in, which uses camera's and makes a 3D picture of the car. He said in a couple of weeks I could get my car on there free of charge. BTW, here's some comments from my results from another person: " can't understand why they've allowed so much difference in front negative camber from left to right! Their settings in rounded figures: -0.5 / -1.2 If you were conservative on the road then you'd setup -0.5 / -0.5 or as close as possible. Conversely for spirited driving (i.e. implication I get for going to D2s) would be -1.2 / -1.2 or as close as possible. Fair difference in castor too. Ideally you'd be trying to gain as much positive castor you could for more spirited driving. It's fair to suggest you've got more benefit just having an alignment done as prior to it the toe was MILES out. This in my opinion will be why it drives so much better." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 Also, if I let go of the wheel, it immediately pulls to the left...is there any other reason it would do this, or can you see in the settings why this has happended? What do you suggest? When I was there, it was building for the new system he is getting in, which uses camera's and makes a 3D picture of the car. He said in a couple of weeks I could get my car on there free of charge. BTW, here's some comments from my results from another person: " can't understand why they've allowed so much difference in front negative camber from left to right! Their settings in rounded figures: -0.5 / -1.2 If you were conservative on the road then you'd setup -0.5 / -0.5 or as close as possible. Conversely for spirited driving (i.e. implication I get for going to D2s) would be -1.2 / -1.2 or as close as possible. Fair difference in castor too. Ideally you'd be trying to gain as much positive castor you could for more spirited driving. It's fair to suggest you've got more benefit just having an alignment done as prior to it the toe was MILES out. This in my opinion will be why it drives so much better." The report would suggest a pull to the right... so that can be dismissed.... Move the front wheels with tyres side to side then test drive the car to see if the pull is tyre drift.... remember this is only for testing so it doesn't matter if the tyres a directional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee Posted May 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 Also, if I let go of the wheel, it immediately pulls to the left...is there any other reason it would do this, or can you see in the settings why this has happended? What do you suggest? When I was there, it was building for the new system he is getting in, which uses camera's and makes a 3D picture of the car. He said in a couple of weeks I could get my car on there free of charge. BTW, here's some comments from my results from another person: " can't understand why they've allowed so much difference in front negative camber from left to right! Their settings in rounded figures: -0.5 / -1.2 If you were conservative on the road then you'd setup -0.5 / -0.5 or as close as possible. Conversely for spirited driving (i.e. implication I get for going to D2s) would be -1.2 / -1.2 or as close as possible. Fair difference in castor too. Ideally you'd be trying to gain as much positive castor you could for more spirited driving. It's fair to suggest you've got more benefit just having an alignment done as prior to it the toe was MILES out. This in my opinion will be why it drives so much better." The report would suggest a pull to the right... so that can be dismissed.... Move the front wheels with tyres side to side then test drive the car to see if the pull is tyre drift.... remember this is only for testing so it doesn't matter if the tyres a directional. Move the wheels side to side? You mean while stationary? I dont understand, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 Also, if I let go of the wheel, it immediately pulls to the left...is there any other reason it would do this, or can you see in the settings why this has happended? What do you suggest? When I was there, it was building for the new system he is getting in, which uses camera's and makes a 3D picture of the car. He said in a couple of weeks I could get my car on there free of charge. BTW, here's some comments from my results from another person: " can't understand why they've allowed so much difference in front negative camber from left to right! Their settings in rounded figures: -0.5 / -1.2 If you were conservative on the road then you'd setup -0.5 / -0.5 or as close as possible. Conversely for spirited driving (i.e. implication I get for going to D2s) would be -1.2 / -1.2 or as close as possible. Fair difference in castor too. Ideally you'd be trying to gain as much positive castor you could for more spirited driving. It's fair to suggest you've got more benefit just having an alignment done as prior to it the toe was MILES out. This in my opinion will be why it drives so much better." The report would suggest a pull to the right... so that can be dismissed.... Move the front wheels with tyres side to side then test drive the car to see if the pull is tyre drift.... remember this is only for testing so it doesn't matter if the tyres a directional. Move the wheels side to side? You mean while stationary? I dont understand, sorry. Never feel sorry in wim!... This area is complicated enough. This forum invites a relaxed reply! I suggest you remove the front wheels with tyres and swap their positions.... then test drive the car again, if the pull is reversed then we know the problem is pneumatic not mechanical or Geometric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee Posted May 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 Oh right I see. So even thou they are directional tyres, it would be OK to swap them over just for the test.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 Oh right I see. So even thou they are directional tyres, it would be OK to swap them over just for the test.... Yep.... your results after this will allow us to move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee Posted June 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 OK, I will test this tonight I will let you know. Tracking has been out for so long, my tyres are eaten so putting some other rims on that have tyres on. However, these are 14" and I got the tracking done with 15" rims on. Will this make a difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 5, 2006 Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 OK, I will test this tonight I will let you know. Tracking has been out for so long, my tyres are eaten so putting some other rims on that have tyres on. However, these are 14" and I got the tracking done with 15" rims on. Will this make a difference? Not for testing purposes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee Posted June 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2006 OK, I will test this tonight I will let you know. Tracking has been out for so long, my tyres are eaten so putting some other rims on that have tyres on. However, these are 14" and I got the tracking done with 15" rims on. Will this make a difference? Not for testing purposes... Oh OK. Well my 14" rims are on and it still pulls to the left. I did do a trackday on these tyres thou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 OK, I will test this tonight I will let you know. Tracking has been out for so long, my tyres are eaten so putting some other rims on that have tyres on. However, these are 14" and I got the tracking done with 15" rims on. Will this make a difference? Not for testing purposes... Oh OK. Well my 14" rims are on and it still pulls to the left. I did do a trackday on these tyres thou i keep looking at your geo report and although i'm not happy with the - + castor positions this would not pull left... the only Geometrical possibility is the OSF Camber position being -more the the NSF... domestically the disparity would not be an issue, i feel your modified car is sensitive to the camber position and the next realistic course of action would be to re-position the OSF camber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee Posted June 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2006 OK, I will test this tonight I will let you know. Tracking has been out for so long, my tyres are eaten so putting some other rims on that have tyres on. However, these are 14" and I got the tracking done with 15" rims on. Will this make a difference? Not for testing purposes... Oh OK. Well my 14" rims are on and it still pulls to the left. I did do a trackday on these tyres thou i keep looking at your geo report and although i'm not happy with the - + castor positions this would not pull left... the only Geometrical possibility is the OSF Camber position being -more the the NSF... domestically the disparity would not be an issue, i feel your modified car is sensitive to the camber position and the next realistic course of action would be to re-position the OSF camber. OK. Well I guess when I go back I can advise them of ur comments and get it sorted...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 18, 2006 Report Share Posted June 18, 2006 OK, I will test this tonight I will let you know. Tracking has been out for so long, my tyres are eaten so putting some other rims on that have tyres on. However, these are 14" and I got the tracking done with 15" rims on. Will this make a difference? Not for testing purposes... Oh OK. Well my 14" rims are on and it still pulls to the left. I did do a trackday on these tyres thou i keep looking at your geo report and although i'm not happy with the - + castor positions this would not pull left... the only Geometrical possibility is the OSF Camber position being -more the the NSF... domestically the disparity would not be an issue, i feel your modified car is sensitive to the camber position and the next realistic course of action would be to re-position the OSF camber. OK. Well I guess when I go back I can advise them of ur comments and get it sorted...? Keep us apprised you are not alone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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