Tango Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 Just thinking (always dangerous ). If you fit coilovers, instead of fixed height spring sets, how can you have correct geometry settings? Obviously without setting them in one position and adjusting the geometry to suit that particular drop. Especially if the coilovers are remotely adjustable electronically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 You must've been thinking too much as you posted the thread in multimedia!! Good question though, I suppose the same could apply to air suspension? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango Posted August 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 You must've been thinking too much as you posted the thread in multimedia!! Doh! Thanks for moving it Rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parthiban Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 Surely it's only an issue if the ride height can be altered at your discretion (can you do that with coilovers - I know you can adjust firmness but can you alter height?) Good point about air suspension though, I know with the Merc Airmatic system that you can drop the car's height by 15mm by pushing a button, perhaps it lowers the car without affecting the geometry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango Posted August 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 Surely it's only an issue if the ride height can be altered at your discretion (can you do that with coilovers - I know you can adjust firmness but can you alter height?) Good point about air suspension though, I know with the Merc Airmatic system that you can drop the car's height by 15mm by pushing a button, perhaps it lowers the car without affecting the geometry? So is the only point of fitting coilovers is to be able to set the height to your one preference?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 Controlling the dampening is wise since the coils would have a higher rate. Car with adjustable air suspension have the chassis calibrated at mid point, as the hight is lowered the geometry stays within tolerance, in addition as the hight is lowered the pressure rate is increased reducing the dynamic gains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango Posted August 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 Controlling the dampening is wise since the coils would have a higher rate. Car with adjustable air suspension have the chassis calibrated at mid point, as the hight is lowered the geometry stays within tolerance, in addition as the hight is lowered the pressure rate is increased reducing the dynamic gains. So your saying there's nothing detrimental to fitting coilovers instead of springs and separate shocks then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 Coilovers are better but either was to geometry would need to be set to tune the suspension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebon Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Coilovers are better but either was to geometry would need to be set to tune the suspension. Hi Tony, Sory to bump here If I were to fit the coilovers on to my IS250, I would need an aftermarket camber adjusters but do I need one for the rear to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIH Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 There's no camber adjustent from factory. I imagine it would mean adjustable balljoints or even importing kits from america so an image first is a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebon Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 There's no camber adjustent from factory. I imagine it would mean adjustable balljoints or even importing kits from america so an image first is a good idea. It was the same adjusters used on Tango's car but not sure if I would need a rear adjusters as I am thinking fitting a coilover instead of springs. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Same as Tango's and i wouldn't worry to much about the rear adjusters, if anything the toe is more an issue than the camber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebon Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 The toe on an IS250 adjustable right?, now i believe the reason why tango fitted an after market front camber adjusters was because of uneven wear on his tyres. Do you think I would need a front camber adjusters if I am lowering my car with coilovers. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Toe front and rear is adjustable. You won't need camber adjuster unless you go below a 30mm drop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebon Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Toe front and rear is adjustable. You won't need camber adjuster unless you go below a 30mm drop. Thanks Tony, thats a saving then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango Posted August 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Toe front and rear is adjustable. You won't need camber adjuster unless you go below a 30mm drop. That was an expensive 8.1mm then If I were you Suren, I would ask WIM to fit the European Specification EiBach Pro Springset which will drop the car 30mm all round. The front of my 250 was dropped 1.5" (38.1mm) but the rear was only 1" (25.4mm). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Wheel width comes into play remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango Posted August 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Wheel width comes into play remember. True, I had wheel Size (diameter and width): 19x8.5 Front - 19x9.5 Rear Wheel Offset Front:+38..offset extends +13mm to standard/+1mm inner gap 8.5 j Wheel Offset Rear:+42...offset extends +42mm to standard/-16mm inner gap Tyre Size Front: 235/35/19 Tyre Size Rear: 285/30/19 OEM Standard fitting:- 17" RWD: Front: 225/45/17, 17x8 +45mm O/S. Rear: 245/45/17, 17x8, +45mm O/S. 18" RWD : Front: 225/40/18, 18x8, +45mm. Rear: 255/40/18, 18x8.5, +50mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 And it's for that reason we had to redirect the scrub radius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebon Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 Toe front and rear is adjustable. You won't need camber adjuster unless you go below a 30mm drop. That was an expensive 8.1mm then If I were you Suren, I would ask WIM to fit the European Specification EiBach Pro Springset which will drop the car 30mm all round. The front of my 250 was dropped 1.5" (38.1mm) but the rear was only 1" (25.4mm). So you reckon it should be EiBach springs and not the coilovers, even with a 17'' wheels. I do want to drop the front to 30mm not sure about the rear without using the camber adjusters but confused between coilovers or springs so any suggestions are welcome. Yes and I would like WIM to fit them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango Posted August 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 So you reckon it should be EiBach springs and not the coilovers, even with a 17'' wheels. I do want to drop the front to 30mm not sure about the rear without using the camber adjusters but confused between coilovers or springs so any suggestions are welcome. Yes and I would like WIM to fit them. Coilovers are height adjustable via the spring perches that are threaded onto the shock body. The shocks normally offer a range of adjustability that can include shock compression (the downward stroke) and rebound (the upward stroke of the shock as the suspension unloads) with as many as 15 or more settings for each. As you appear to have a fixed 30mm drop in mind, this range of adjustment doesn't appear to be essential to your needs. The other feature of coilovers is the ability to change the stiffness of the shock absorbers, but the Eibach Pro Springset is a very good compromise for a road car in being slightly stiffer without totally ruining the ride comfort. I found the standard shock absorbers to be perfectly adequate even with the lower ride height with the American spec springs. Assuming you're not wanting to alter the ride height and stiffness every week-end for putting the car on the track, I'd say lowering springs are what you need. However, if money isn't a concern and you or you want to play with the settings then buy coilovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebon Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 So you reckon it should be EiBach springs and not the coilovers, even with a 17'' wheels. I do want to drop the front to 30mm not sure about the rear without using the camber adjusters but confused between coilovers or springs so any suggestions are welcome. Yes and I would like WIM to fit them. Coilovers are height adjustable via the spring perches that are threaded onto the shock body. The shocks normally offer a range of adjustability that can include shock compression (the downward stroke) and rebound (the upward stroke of the shock as the suspension unloads) with as many as 15 or more settings for each. As you appear to have a fixed 30mm drop in mind, this range of adjustment doesn't appear to be essential to your needs. The other feature of coilovers is the ability to change the stiffness of the shock absorbers, but the Eibach Pro Springset is a very good compromise for a road car in being slightly stiffer without totally ruining the ride comfort. I found the standard shock absorbers to be perfectly adequate even with the lower ride height with the American spec springs. Assuming you're not wanting to alter the ride height and stiffness every week-end for putting the car on the track, I'd say lowering springs are what you need. However, if money isn't a concern and you or you want to play with the settings then buy coilovers. Yes 30mm is what I have in mind and thats because dropping any lower requires after market camber adjusters which is not the route I want to take, but having said that all I am looking for is handling/ride comfort and if the springs can do that then I would go for the Eibachs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 -30mm would naturally lower the cambers and since the coil rate is higher you can afford a deeper camber because the dynamic gains are much less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango Posted August 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 Yes 30mm is what I have in mind and thats because dropping any lower requires after market camber adjusters which is not the route I want to take, but having said that all I am looking for is handling/ride comfort and if the springs can do that then I would go for the Eibachs. Good move. Looks so much better when it's dropped too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebon Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Thanks Terry,now all I got to do is order the springs and hopefully get an appointment sorted for 2nd week in September with WIM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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