Tony Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 To replace the NSF wishbone the front retaining bolt needs to be 'tail down' for obvious safety reasons, but this would involve much more work by the garage since to enable this the sub-frame would need to be lowered or the engine lifted..... An easy cop out is to cut the existing bolt away and fit the new bolt 'tail up'.... Be warned this is a potential killer because the nut does have an opportunity to undo releasing the wishbone from the chassis.... a dire situation! If you have this..... Instead of this....... Scream Treading standards...... Then realize the cheapest quote may not be the wisest destination Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorps Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 Thing is if it was done on the cheap,you wouldn't know untill it all went tits up. Scary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 Thing is if it was done on the cheap,you wouldn't know untill it all went tits up. Scary And it has for some unfortunate owners..... This warning is prominent in the Ford forums (rightly so) I also often see the cop-out method hence the images. The time differential is this.. 1: Incorrect method... 20min 2: Correct method... 1hr 20min So any quote for the easy job may be £80 less then the correct procedure... Human nature steers people toward the cheapest quote since this form of repair is normally insisted!.. by this i mean the car may have failed an MOT or is handling pants, so the owner peruses the cheapest solution..... The 'Trauma' market is far removed from the 'Modification market'...... Scary! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discount tyres dan Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 the way i do these is to take the bolt out that goes right through the foward lower engine mount, then remove the 2 nearside subframe bolts, slacken the 2 ofside bolts then you can pull down on the subframe enough to slide the bolts out and in again, refitting it the reverse of stripping except you need a subframe alignment tool to makesure the subframe goes back as ford intended then sugest a full geom to the customer also i have noticed on some mondeos that i the bolt is in upside down then the tip of the bolt rubs on the gearbox.. that cant be healthy either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorps Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 Cant you mark the subframe then do away with the tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted September 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 Cant you mark the subframe then do away with the tool. No tool mate only procedure..... Simple fact is the Mondeo requires many wishbones during it's short lifespan, and the NSF bolt is an issue... Most places will reverse the bolt because it's easy to do, but the consequences are dire..... very dire! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 22, 2006 Report Share Posted December 22, 2006 Well the bolt on mine has been reverted (not by me). I didn't even realise until Tony pointed it out during my geo. It had been fitted about 14 months beforehand. It's now been like this for 19 months and I've had no problems. Lower arm is a pattern part as well and I'm surprised it's lasted this long anyway! There seems to be a lot of dispute about this on the MEG forum and some people think it's fine like this, whereas others will put the bolt in the correct way. As Tony says the price puts people off! I'm sure the lower arm bolts are reverted on some makes of cars out of the factory though? However, you could argue about the subframe bolts as these are put in upside down. I had a scary moment last year when my subframe became loose on the M25 while doing 70mph, I could feel I was losing control of the steering as the frame was moving If I'd crashed that could've been nasty! One bolt had come undone and then seized in the nut, plus the other bolts were only hand tight and not torqued up. I suspect this could be down to a clutch change by the previous owner! When me lower arm does need changing I will be making sure the bolt is put in correctly, especially as I have the little one in the car. I think I will be calling on Tony to advise me on this as lowering my subframe will be a pain cos of the problem I had. There is no longer a captive nut there as the bolt sheared when trying to remove it, so the nut and rest of the bolt had to come out from the floor. If the subframe is dropped and I have a new captive nut put/welded on, do you think this will will cost much more? I would obviously prep the area first. Sorry for the long post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2006 If memory serves me right, these images are from your car Mr Racer. Each time i see your car i check this bolt although you don't see me checking it .... Why! cos it scares the pants off me every time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Posted December 22, 2006 Report Share Posted December 22, 2006 but if a Nyloc nut is used it should never come loose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2006 but if a Nyloc nut is used it should never come loose Agreed! but most shops use the old Nylock nut.... We know it is a one time use for the Nylock but some even miss this basic knowledge..... I think next time i see this car i will mig the bolt to the sub-frame if only for my peace of mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 22, 2006 Report Share Posted December 22, 2006 I thought that photo was from mine as it was around the same time you did the geo for me. I've been very conscious of it since you mentioned it but as it's been ok so far I didn't want to start messing with it. Especially with the problems I'd have lowering the subframe if I attempted it meself. If the bolt was mig'd (this is a type of welding isn't it?) or a proper nylock was used are you saying it would ok to revert the bolt, or there would at least be minimal chance of it failing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2006 I thought that photo was from mine as it was around the same time you did the geo for me. I've been very conscious of it since you mentioned it but as it's been ok so far I didn't want to start messing with it. Especially with the problems I'd have lowering the subframe if I attempted it meself. If the bolt was mig'd (this is a type of welding isn't it?) or a proper nylock was used are you saying it would ok to revert the bolt, or there would at least be minimal chance of it failing? Nothing beats the logic from the original design (bolt nose down) but a spot weld in your case would put my mind at rest! And cost nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_AS Posted December 26, 2006 Report Share Posted December 26, 2006 Racer: what reg is your Mondeo? Are the lower arms replaced cos the suspension bushes perish? I will certainly be making sure the bolt gets put in the correct way around when the time comes on my Mondeo. Thank you for bringing this to our attention Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 Racer: what reg is your Mondeo? Are the lower arms replaced cos the suspension bushes perish? I will certainly be making sure the bolt gets put in the correct way around when the time comes on my Mondeo. Thank you for bringing this to our attention Tony. It's an X reg, MK2 though not a 3. As yours is a TDCI I'd imagine it's a MK3. I don't think this is an issue on the newer mondeos, I've never seen it mentioned on MEG anyway. I replaced mine (the O/S) as the ball joint was knackered where the rubber had split. When I first got the car I had both replaced as the bushes were worn and the arms were knocking badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick the greek Posted December 29, 2006 Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 Afflicts all MK1 and MK2 Mondeos... I guess the design has changed on the MK3, I haven't looked underneath one though to check. BTW, Hello Essex_Racer, it is I, Monkeyra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 29, 2006 Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 Afflicts all MK1 and MK2 Mondeos... I guess the design has changed on the MK3, I haven't looked underneath one though to check. BTW, Hello Essex_Racer, it is I, Monkeyra I think the design must have changed for the MK3. Monkeyra what's your view on reverting the bolt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick the greek Posted December 29, 2006 Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 Afflicts all MK1 and MK2 Mondeos... I guess the design has changed on the MK3, I haven't looked underneath one though to check. BTW, Hello Essex_Racer, it is I, Monkeyra I think the design must have changed for the MK3. Monkeyra what's your view on reverting the bolt? Can't remember on what the consensus was TBH... There was a big thread on MEG about it a while back (we're talking a good few years ago I think) I think when people changed it themselves, the reverted the bolt, along with some threadlock... which tbh, on a nylock bolt (new) should be fine. Put it this way, on MEG so far, I can only recall one instance of the bolt falling out. (Thats over the past 7 years!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 Did you know Tony the bolt for the Civic wishbones are also inverted, see it's not just Ford that does it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 NICE THREAD RESURRECTION........ Point was that the Mondeo inversion was not intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 I was looking for something else and found it! That is true Ford didn't design it that way but as Mat said a nylock will stop it coming undone anyway. I've never had an issue with it in 6 years of owning the car. I don't think I will get another one though, had enough of changing the arms cos of the crap design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 It was becoming high maintainable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammy Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 alingment tool is a must....same if you remove or under rear subframe too.....27 quid well spent on a pair of alingment tools Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 Yeah they were useful when I had that subframe bolt issue...sold them after that though as I didn't use them again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammy Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 you'll be kicking yourself if you do ever need em lol..i Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 Nope cos I won't have the car! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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