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BMW Geometry again.


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Reads like those tyres again........


I fear you are right mate. Can't you be wrong for once! :) :) :angry2:


Between the Falken FK-452 and the Verdestein Ultrac Sessanta what would you recommend as a replacement?


I have had the Falken FK-452 on both the BMW (18") and when I had the Aristo in (19") size = they are a safe tried and trusted option; just not a fan of the virtually not existant rim protector and the way they loose alot of grip when they wear down to 4mm and below.


The Verdestein Ultrac Sessanta I had on the Aristo when I changed to 18" wheels and were fantastic on a heavy car and hardly every broke traction considering the cars power. I was very impressed with them.


I have posted on BMWLand to ask if anyone would be willing to let me borrow a set of wheels/tyres so I can test, so I know conclusively if the tyres are to blame.

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The 452 is proven over the marques so a safe sale in my opinion, but........ the Verdestein Ultrac Sessanta is a formidable tyre and in time i feel it will be superior.


Shame there's not a BMW club meet anytime soon, that's an ideal time for a swap.

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The 452 is proven over the marques so a safe sale in my opinion, but........ the Verdestein Ultrac Sessanta is a formidable tyre and in time i feel it will be superior.


Shame there's not a BMW club meet anytime soon, that's an ideal time for a swap.



I know its strange Tony but I have have my BMW for almost 4 years and never been to a BMW meet. Much prefer going to the Lexus Owners club meets and parking in the naughty German car corner. Not sure why, but no matter what other cars I have had, LOC has been/always will be home.


I am certain that if I had a Lexus and had this issue, someone would help me out with a wheel swap but I don't really have that many links with other BMW owners...... :angry2:


I do like the thread pattern of the Verdesteins and the fact they worked well on my heavy Aristo should be it should be ok on the BMW? They have a decent rim protector too... think I would prefer them over the Falkens to be honest but don't want to take the gamble if they are going to have issues like these Goodyears.

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Managed to get the car to my local trusted mechanic/friend for him to take a look at.


We went on a long test drive taking in various different tyres of roads. At first he didn't spot what I was taking about regarding the steering feeling loose and "slow" because he doesn't drive it all the time to spot differences like that but he did say it had more play then he would have expected.


Once we got on the motorway however he was shocked. He said the car is wondering all over the place and its hard to keep it in a straight line. He described it like the backend wanting to get away. He told me he knew what it was and said it will be the rear tailing arm bushes which must be shot.


I reminded him that they were changed for Powerflex items about 18 months ago. Well anyway, he also took it around some roundabouts and was amazed at the bodyroll. My car has uprated Eibach AntiRoll bars but it felt more like a boat. ;)


We got back to the garage and got the car on the ramp. He poked and proded the car and various suspension components and came back to me and said he can't see anything wrong! He said all bushes are tight with no play everything looks good - the whole car is soild.


I mentioned the only things I have had done to the car recently were a geometry and obviously the new alloys/tyres. He said that maybe the geometry is not correct then?


I know its not scientific but he measued the gaps between the wheels and the bodywork and they appeared to be the same at both sides just as a basic very rough check incase something is obviously out - like when it went for a geometry it wasn't tightenend up properly and the settings had changed but all the adjustors were tight.


The other issue he noticed was that my rear shocks/Eibach coilovers were very slightly leaking (looks like they only just started). He didn't think they are to blame however. Lucikly I have done a check and Eibach Coilovers appear to have a two year warranty so I should be able to get them replaced under warranty.


He was looking puzzled so I showed him Tony Bones's post on this thread:


I wouldn't recommend the asymmetric on any car now due to the complaints, these being..


* The steering feels like there's a delay between yaw and actual grip.

* The rear feels like it's in a cross wind and fishtailing


The turn in can be manufactured but you cannot use the front camber.... Move the front toe negative, remove some rear camber and add positive rear toe.


He said the symptoms Tony described were exactly what he thinks my car is suffering from!!! He is having a hard time believing the tyres are to blame however but did admit it was possible since nothing else was jumping out as a fault.


So really we do need to get some other tyres on the car to see if it fixes the issues! Trying to source a set of wheels/tyres from BMWland members but no joy so far.

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Right - drove the car for a while today while having to collect something from work and concentrated hard on how the car drove.


1. Car rolls alot when making quick direction changes - definetly more then it used to. (Hit some country roads)

2. Unstable on the motorway (like in a crosswind) as Tony mentioned before

3. Steering is abit numb and doesn't snap back as quick as it used to. It feels like its slow or delayed.


On the plus side no matter how hard I pushed the car into the corners the rear end was stuck like glue!


Should hopefully get the car on the ramp tomorrow at a garage but I am getting more and more convinced the tyres are to blame.


:lol: Bit fed up with it all really.

Exactly how my car felt after having the TOYO T1-R `s fitted to the rear of my lex.....you could do with swapping with someone who has some Bridgestone tyres as these are meant to be far harder sidewall and should give you a more positive drive.... all be it with added road roar...

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who knew chooisng tyres coould be so fraught ? :lol:

I quote what Tony B said and many people say ..( "If you deviate from the OEM spec tyres then its ""BUYER BEWARE TIME" ) Like you say Caminhead...who would thought buying some black rubber stuff for your car could be so fraught... :lol: :P

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I should hopefully be in a position to swap my wheels with a BMW 320D owner tomorrow all being well. Then I should know for sure if the tyres are at fault.


I'm confident B)


Right rushed from work, sat in taffic and finally got to take the car to Charlesworth Motors in Glossop and got Steve (owner/king mechanic/engineer) to drive the car. He agreed there was something up with the car. He was suprised at the roll of the car considering the suspension it has and the Eibach AntiRoll bars. Steve owns a 320d and it was him I was supposed to swap wheels with - unfortunetly his car is stuck on a ramp having some major work done to it and he can't physically take his wheels off. B)


However he should be able to take his wheels off on Friday, so I will be calling at his garage on Saturday morning.


The other advantage is that Steve had Vredestein tyres too which is great because those were the replacement tyres I was thinking of anyway - so a true try before you buy!


Roll on Saturday......

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Time for an update.


I was let down getting the spare set of wheels I needed, but a BMWLand member (who ironically worked in the next street!) offered to lend me a set of MV2 BMW Replicas. They were 225/40/18 8J wide all around so not the same as the staggered setup I ran but anyway, still would be helpful.


I collected the wheels, drove to my friends garage and he swapped the wheels over.


Old MV2 wheels fitted:





We went for a drive and unfortunetly it was wet and the tyres (which were virtually brand new) on the replica MV2 just would not grip at all. They just couldn't handle the torque of the car and even at 30mph a gentle prod of the accelerator and they would spin up!


After taking the Stigs "brave pills" we hit the motorway and gently increased speed - we had no confidence in the car and were scared to go past 70mph, but we pushed it to 70mph+ and the car was even worse then before!


When we got back to the garage we actaully parked outside and my friend/mechanic decided to see if he could see anything obvious with the car. As soon as he got out he noticed something and then asked me to see if I noticed it too.


I did!! :mad: :o

The top of the passenger side rear wheel looked alot more "in" compared to the drivers side - like it had alot more camber! We got a few people to check and all agreed. One wheel was angled more "in" then the other!!


After a measure, the gaps between the tyre sidewall and the inside of the wheel arch at each side were:


Drivers - 45mm

Passeger - 49mm !!!


I have tried to explain what I mean with pictures but its not that easy to do. The difference is much more blatent in reality.




The fact that I had wide 9" rims with 255 tyres with a big rim protector on the car before made this extremely hard to spot before because they virtually filled the arches! The thin 8" wheels with a virtually non existant rim protector made it much easier to spot this difference!


Now obviously the report report looked OK so I will be going back to the Geometry Centre and having a word! Something has seriously gone wrong! :angry:


I will be on the phone on Monday to get the car back in. Now if the car goes back on the Hunter Geometry machine and it says the rear wheels are correct then I'm sorry but I think the machine needs calibrating or something???



So glad to have the Goodyears back on, the tyres on the MV2 rims were "fullrun"?? and scary in the wet!

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From the image i can see the difference....


Only two possibilities here mate, either a coil has snapped or the camber is just plain wrong.


Hi Tony :o


When you say coil you mean a coil on the rear springs? We checked these today too when swapping wheels (since we had a thought that the rear spring might have "gone soft" but both are in tact and fine!


It does appear to be that the camber is just pain wrong. My concern is why the report shows it as being ok - could the machine be faulty or poorly calibrated if there is such a thing?

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Yes the machine or ramp can be out of calibration.... Drop a spirit level on the ramp when their doing the measurement's :o


If your checking for coil sag check the distance between the helix's side-to-side.

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I have to give Drury the chance to correct this mistake first.......


The strange thing is when the geometry was being done, they showed me the spirit level on one of the wheel clamps (if thats what they are called?) and it was spot on but obviously I didn't check all four (seemed rude to do that and implies lack of trust which is unfair)


My rear shocks need changing (started leaking) but luckily they are still under warranty so once those are changed I think I will make the 3h+ journey to WIM so let you work your magic if you can fit me in. I would also like to improve turn in so I think a Dr Bones custom job would be the order of the day. :o

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Rang Drury Lane today and explained what I was experiencing. They said that the machine is callibrated every six months and if the machine was not correctly callibrated it would not even allow the geometry to take place??


They were happy for me to bring the car back in, which is good. Leaving the car with them on Wednesday morning and will be collecting it at lunchtime. Hopefully all resolved.


Why they are doing this geometry is it worth asking for a touch more camber at the front to aid road holding?

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Car was back at Drury Lane today. They tried their best and were really helpful and test drove the car before starting work.


This is the latest report:




I asked about the machine not being accurate and was told that it self-calibrates itself and if a sensor is faulty it won't allow a geometry to take place (which has happened once in the past apparently). I was also told that where the cambers on the rear tyres looked different was an optical illusion- the alignment would have to be ALOT out for it to be a full degree difference and to be that far out in reality. When they put the car on the geometry machine, car was pretty much all in spec. They did make a few slight adjustments however as the report shows.


I drove to work, and then hit the motorway on the way home after work but only for 3- 4 minutes and it was very windy so I can't really say if the issue is resolved - I definetly was in a cross wind for real! LOL


If after tomorrow I am not satisfied that the issue is resolved then I am going to see if I can get my hands on a set of wheels with Verdestein tyres on (which I was supposed to be doing until I got let down) because even I, now honestly think it can only be the tyres causing the issues after all this testing. The steering still feels abit slow to be honest which is what is leading to that conclusion.

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