markj Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Hi Has anyone experienced a tyre wear problem on a Lexus LS430? It’s a 2005 model with 245/45/18 tyres. Dunlop SP9000 but I don’t think the make of tyre has anything to do with it. Both tyres are wearing on the outside edge, with the NSF the worst. The handling of the cars is ok and the geometry has been checked by the local Lexus dealer who has stated that it ok. Unfortunately no printout was given. Any help or advice appreciated MJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Hi MJ I've seen a few with this problem.... They run with a near vertical front camber allowing the inner tyre on a turn to lean outside of the vertical to far. The camber is adjustable on your car so it's an east fix. The reason the dealer says it's ok is ignorance i'm afraid... the front camber has a "give or take" tolerance of 45' which is huge by modern standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markj Posted February 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Hi Tony I guess the first step be to get a full geometry check done with a print out showing how the car is at the moment. Once this is done is there a set figure for the camber angle or does it depend on the indvidual car. MJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Hi Tony I guess the first step be to get a full geometry check done with a print out showing how the car is at the moment. Once this is done is there a set figure for the camber angle or does it depend on the indvidual car. MJ I would go to the absolute centre point of the front cambers range, there's no need to deviate from OEM since the suggested data from Lexus is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markj Posted February 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Hi Tony I took the car to major high street tyre retailer today to have the geometry set. I won’t mention their name but when you’ve read this I’m sure you can have a good guess. Not only did I have to drive 60 miles to find one that did full geometry instead of the usual 4-wheel laser alignment con. Once there I explained the problem and offered the possible cause, only to be told, you are going to love this. its a common problem on Japanese cars as they are set up to drive on Japanese roads and our roads are different, and larger tyres wear quicker anyway because they are so wide. This would have been bad enough but the best was yet to come. Despite still having 3mm of tread around the full circumference of the outside edge I was told that they could not check and adjust the geometry unless I bought two new tyres. Apparently their equipment is so accurate that the outside edge wear would throw off the figures. Is that correct, surely new tyres don't have to be fitted to do a geometry check? I had only just picked myself off the floor when he gave me a price for 2 245/45/18 tyres. £620 for a pair of pilot sports. "These are the only ones I’ve got in stock he said" Needless to say the geometry is as was and I’m looking for another garage to carry out the work. I have been advised to go to one in Edinburgh from a friend who had is S class done there. Oh well it only a 120 mile round trip. I’ll keep you posted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 PMSL that is unbelievable! Tony you need to print that out and frame it for the reception! Doesn't help you much though mate If you're gonna spend that much on tyres you could probably drive to WIM and back, get a geo and tyres and still have a few quid left! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIH Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Not the first time I've heard that. Heard it today, as it happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 I'm embarrassed to be associated with the industry when they talk such dribble...... The tyres condition "cannot" influence the figures since the measurements are taken from the rim, plus the small variation of the tyre depth is to small and without enough structure to "suspend" the wheels position.... It's like saying the wheels camber position is solely because the tyre has uneven wear? The wear is a consequence of the wheels position not the other way round. Jap cars on Jap roads have a different Geometry...... your in the Uk, what's that got to do with you? Wider tyres have a different Geometry... again what's that got to do with you. Just to expose what dribble they are talking, i can set your Geometry without even having the wheels on the car, the tyre condition has nothing to do with the measurements or results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markj Posted February 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Hi Tony The cars aligment was checked today. according to the printout the camber and the toe angle were both out on the front wheel. And the toe angle on the rears was also out. if i've done it right there should be a scan of the printout on this post. Can't say i've noticed any difference in the car on the drive home, guess i'll just have to keep an eye on the tyre wear. MJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Front cambers are wrong, they should be -15'..... why did they set them 0'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markj Posted February 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 i dont know why they were set to 0 degrees. All was told at the time was that the N/S/F was out, both in toe and camber and that the rear toe was out on both sides. he said if i have any problems to go back and he recheck it. is it a big problem being set at 0 degrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 i dont know why they were set to 0 degrees.All was told at the time was that the N/S/F was out, both in toe and camber and that the rear toe was out on both sides. he said if i have any problems to go back and he recheck it. is it a big problem being set at 0 degrees. Yes, it should be -15'..... Driving dead ahead it's not a real issue since aerodynamics pulls the camber position down but on cornering the inner wheels camber will migrate toward positive allowing the outer sidewall to hold to much weight, the tyres will wear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djwozza Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 I know it's a long drive, but should have gone to WIM ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markj Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 hi two thing done today new geometry check and a service. the results of the check are below. the camber and toe angles look OK but now the Right camber angle is out. the garage cant adjust it directly and they said it most likely caused buy accident damage. the car was checked over for damage during its service and nothing was found. the car is only four years old full service and not even a scuff on one of the alloys. How bad is the camber angle, it can be adjusted by replacing the rear bush housing but its not cheap. the car still pulls very slightly to left but apart from that the handling is fine. will the Castor angle cause tyre wear or any other problems? http://s578.photobucket.com/albums/ss225/m...-2009195544.jpg Thanks for any advice MJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 The front camber angles are fine, the rears are a bit deep but not end of days. The nsf castor angle is low and will make the car pull, it will also generate some tyre wear. It looks like the nsf tie rod, aka control arm is bent.... Did they measure the set-back or laterals or was that the only print they gave you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markj Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 The front camber angles are fine, the rears are a bit deep but not end of days. The nsf castor angle is low and will make the car pull, it will also generate some tyre wear. It looks like the nsf tie rod, aka control arm is bent.... Did they measure the set-back or laterals or was that the only print they gave you? no that was the only print out they gave me. They were measured on the previous check but that one showed no sign of a castor problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 I didn't think they gave you a print out from the last time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markj Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 I didn't think they gave you a print out from the last time? it's the one posted previously were the camber was set to 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 I didn't think they gave you a print out from the last time? it's the one posted previously were the camber was set to 0 So it was..... I need more sleep... Does your suspension have different settings like comfort/ sports and alike? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 it has a normal/sport setting and a normal/high setting. they were both in the normal position for each check. i had also checked the front and rear ride height before the checks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 it has a normal/sport setting and a normal/high setting.they were both in the normal position for each check. i had also checked the front and rear ride height before the checks. Where they the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 it has a normal/sport setting and a normal/high setting.they were both in the normal position for each check. i had also checked the front and rear ride height before the checks. Where they the same? yes, within a couple of mm of each other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markj Posted April 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2009 checked the front and rear ride height again today they are all within +/- 2mm of spec, best measurment i can get using a tape measure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted April 18, 2009 Report Share Posted April 18, 2009 I would need to see the car myself, the first and second prints are in total conflict, the second one suggests there has been in impact although you claim this is not the case. If the camber adjusters are off-set then it's possible the cross member will need to be moved in order to reclaim the castor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markj Posted April 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2009 time and distance are the biggest problem it would be almost a 900 mile round trip to have you look at the car. could it be a problem with one of the alignment machines or possibly bad setup by the operator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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