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Newbie! Vrs, not happy with the handling! still!


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Hello! im new here but have had a good look around some interesting stuff and alot of stuff i dont understand fully.

Really would like some help im fed up with so called alignment garage's saying yeah it's ok it's within spec!!!!!!!!!

So here's my story brought a standard mk1 octavia vrs about two years ago , handling was ok but i wanted abit more, thought i'd go down the handling route first before power.

So my current set up is as follows-

 

Koni fsd's dampers

H&R sport springs (20mm drop)

Polybushed wishbone's (superpro)

Front lower strut brace

22mm whiteline adjustable rear arb (get rid of the understeer)

I have also had new oem front arb (19mm) and bushes, top mounts and front droplinks.

Regarding the 20mm drop it's more like 15mm at the most, as the fsd's actually raised the car by about 5mm.

I've had all sorts of alignment done/ checked but all for a standard vrs which mine is not im just not happy with the way the car drives im at the point where i feel like getting rid of it! It just doesn't feel planted sometime's the front feels light with little grip, the steering is to light with little feel and in general feels twitchy.

Sorry to go on but i feel this is the only place to guide me in the right direction to getting it sorted/better. I understand that the mk1 octavia has limited adjustment but camber shims may help? I know my rear and front camber is out from one side to the other from a print out i had done with four wheel alignment ive also get slight toe out on the front. I only have basic knowledge and would like to know where to start? Think i will end up at wim i just want it to drive/handle better to say im dissapionted is a understatement after spending a fair amount of money on it. Rant over. :thumbsup_anim:

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Hello

 

Reads like we have a little work to do!.... From the outset what are your intentions for the car?..... is this a daily drive or preparing for some track use.

 

Problem you really have here is that each mod needs it's own unique calibration, when you have a family of modifications then you need some special analysis.

 

Next issue is the Octavia chassis is reasonably fixed limiting any tuning, well in actual fact this is not the case? It is possible to re-align the rear beam and optimise the front cross-member to adjust the camber and castor.. happy days.

 

Can you display any past Geo reports?

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Wow thanks for the quick reply! car is a daily driver with the hope of the odd track day thrown in. great to hear it can be adjusted ! Yeah i have a geo report but this was done before the springs where fitted, but it reads as follows-

 

Front camber-

left -0 36

right -0 12

 

Rear camber-

left -1 24

right -1 36

 

Front toe-

left 0.0

right 0.0

 

Rear toe-

left 0.3

right 0.0

 

castor-

left 8 06

right 7 58

 

Thrust angle 0.02

 

Though i suspect it will be different now since the springs were fitted.

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How does the high castor effect handling, and what reading should the castor be? So the camber being out from one side to another is not a major problem then? Thanks.

I can get a alignment done again and print out to see what it's reading now, hopefully this week.

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The camber and castor can be optimized by moving the subframe, i personally would do this.

 

Then i would set the front toe to 0 and pull the car down to watch the toe-tendency, if the toe migrates to negative (toe out) then i would add toe in so that the car feels secure on the bump.

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Yeah i agree i would like to have the castor and camber optimized, i see what your saying about the toe, got me thinking that's it be worse recently since it seems to now have slight toe out? Not sure what you mean by pull the car down though?

I think i need to get a geo report done asap to see what it is showing now and see what you make of it. I really appreciate you taking the time to help sort this out, and it seems more and more likely i'll be poping up to see you so you can work your magic! (only a 4hr drive!!)

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The pull down is literally that.... Pull the car down so the suspension articulates, during the articulation the toe will change, it's this migration we use to determine the real toe centre (relaxed) point.

 

Toe out during any articulation is not desirable on a domestic vehicle.

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Well i've had a alignment check done, seems i have gained some negative camber as expected but not as much as i'd like on the front. My front toe is out, one wheel has toe out other toe in, they said was my steering wheel straight to which i replyed yes, they said no point in changing the toe then as this would make the steering wheel off center? So nothing was done.

Geo reads as follows-

 

Front camber-

left -0 40

right - 16

 

rear camber-

left -1 32

right -1 30

 

Front toe-

left -1.3

right 1.2

total -0.1

 

Rear toe-

left 1.2

right -0.1

total 1.1

 

Castor-

left 7 53

right 7 50

 

Thurst angle 0 06

 

What do you make of this? my camber seems well out from one side to another on the front!

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The reason for the front "toe-in/out" deal is the rear thrust angle is off..... It's within limits but it means every X yards you need to correct your driving line. as for the cambers i would have optimized them but 24' disparity is not end of days.

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Ok thanks, so where do i go from here? I would like to optimize the cambers to get it down from 24', is there adjustment for this or will i need to buy a camber kit? Do you think you could make an overall improvement to the way the car drives from looking at the geo report? Thanks again.

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Ok thanks, so where do i go from here? I would like to optimize the cambers to get it down from 24', is there adjustment for this or will i need to buy a camber kit? Do you think you could make an overall improvement to the way the car drives from looking at the geo report? Thanks again.

 

I don't think the 24' will be the cure..... Can you define the handling complaint in as few words as possible just so i can focus on the problem.

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Ok i will try, it corners flat but feels like lack of front grip when turning in and feels unsettled to the point where you feel as if it will break away.

To me the steering seems to light and nervous and im finding it hard to drive with any confidence. Hope im not confusing you?

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Not sure about the rear, i know there is shims avaliable from Spc performance from +1 to -5.

 

Ok then it is fixed.... I did wonder it you had fitted aftermarket adjusters...... Does your car have EPS (electronic power steering) or AYC (active yaw control)

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Yes it has eps but no yaw control afaik. I dont think the power steering can be adjusted through vag-com on the mk1 though, i will check on briskoda.

 

If the EPS can be adjusted by adding weight this would help no ends.... Failing that were stuffed because the only tools we have is to shim the rear to change the tyres saturation limits and add front steering feel with unnatural toe positions.

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I'd have thought all that front castor would have given a "strong" front end ?

 

Not with the mods.... But i am with you on this one... we would think the steering had additional weight with such a high castor?... by comparison the camber is low and the rear is deep, so there's a push there.

 

I don't know with this one.... If only the front camber were adjustable.

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You can get camber top mounts, dont know if this will be enough adjustment though -/+ 1?

Do you think making the rear arb a bit softer will help things slighty?

Thanks.

Just had a thought their is slight adjustment in the lower ball joint too.

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