Mondeo mk st tdci sports suspension settings

[Devonshire]

Hi. I'm trying to get clarification on the correct settings for my mk3 mondeo st tdci. 

OK the car has been fine for 15 years. Having now replaced all the rear dampers, rear bushes , arms, bolts etc Had the car 4 wheel aligned. 

Ist off they set it as an estate. . . . Duh. Its a hatchback. 

2nd returned as it was shocking to drive. . . Better but offset steering. Knowing I was going to replace the fronts soon I left it. 

Fitted new front legs,( dampers bearing tops, drop links, all new).  An odd clock had appeared from the rear, In the meantime.

I tried all the non adjustable arms for tightness nothing at a loss. 

Took the car to ATS as local and I was up against time long journey to do and excessive inner front right tyre wear. Got them to 4 wheel align on star tracker. 

They found the rear alignment bolts slightly loose.    Surprise odd clock gone. 

All adjusted and a free retest after I replace a front wishbone . Result.  Car drove fine steering wheel straight. The guy was thorough in getting it right on. 

Replace arm . Took it back steering was off. Same guy, same thorough adjustment. Now the steering is off and feels off 

Now in Haynes the V6 has different toe settings.  . . (Sports suspention) 15mm lower than standard. 

The mk3 ST TDCi also 15mm lower (sports suspension) toe settings as a standard mondeo. . .  . Lowering a car alters the geometry so how come th V6 is different to the ST TDCi? 

Or is startracker wrong. .?? I contacted star tracker direct for clarification and they said ATS was correct. 

With the wheel straight the car turns left. I have to drive turning right.  before I go back to ATS what is right.

Any advise greatly welcomed thanks in advance.   

 

 

[Tony]

Hello

Did they give you a printout and if yes can you display it.

[Devonshire]

As requested 

This was from the ats 4 way first alignment. 

Didnt get the second as it was done as a favour. I watched and they were as thorough as the first time. Were bang on the pointers. 

The base question is if the car is lowered as standard to V6 spec why is the tracking not the same?

All models except the V6 are the same settings?. Seems odd to me. 

Thanks again.

GARY

[Devonshire]

Supertracker not star tracker sorry.

Email from super tacker

"There is no individual setting for a 2.2 TDCi ST but the 3.0 V6 ST has the same toe settings front and rear, it’s only the camber that is 0.10’ degrees higher on the V6 so it will be fine on the standard ssettings."

 

Haynes would disagree. 

 

[Tony]

All the settings displayed are a suggestion. What we do is adjust positions if the complaint has become a matter of fact.

I've done this for BMW, Mazda, Lexus, and Omega.

I've spoken to Hunter saying displaying the dynamic tolerance is a dynamic range, whereas the static centre point is where the car needs adjusting.

When i train people i turn all the colours off, the reason being everything could be "in the green" and the car will handle pants.

[Devonshire]

Looks like I'm best off running the car over gunsons trackrite and do it myself. 

I thought the 4 wheel systems were set up, so any half clued up bod could set the car bang on. 

guess im wrong. 

but super tracker are saying all mondeo's toe are the same only the non adjustable castor is different. 

Haynes say otherwise.   as pictured.

Guess ill need to tackle supertracker or pay ford to square it up.    im guessing ATS wont do anything other than what the computer says. so if that is flawed wrong or does not have the setup for my car then im scuppered. you way to far away to pop past and have you correct something that should be able to be dealt with locally. 

I may try to find a southwest specialist or a system with a V6 setup and try that. 

yet again I find something that should be straight forward a complete ball buster to resolve.  oh well the joys of car ownership. 

Thank you for your replies. 

 

[Devonshire]

To add the tyres slide or scrub on full lock forward and back direction. 

[Tony]

The scrub is due to the Ackerman angle which isn't adjustable.

[Devonshire]

If the toe is incorrect then the ackerman will be out. 

All i know at this point is the steering is off, the setting are set bang on. 

I have scrubbing on full lock that wasnt there before.

It seems not to be an exact science  so going to grab the gunsons and do it myself. I pity the average road user who are left in the hands of non experts. 

Again thank you for all your information its been helpful.

[Tony]

The Ackaman is a  fixed angel but it can change if the camber is wrong.

On the drift cars we remove the ackaman by removing the track rods pick up point. Reason being drift cars don't tack corners.

[Rich]

The MK3 Mondeo is the same as the MK2 (I had one) and only the toe is adjustable on them.

If the camber and caster is ever out it's usually a sign that something is bent. Whatever you do don't get those camber/caster adjustable top mounts. They're a complete nightmare!

 

[Devonshire]

The car was fine until the rear bushes advised on mot were replaced after140k miles. ( i have owned the car form 1yr old)

I replaced all the rear arms dampers springs drop links as well as poly bushing the main mounts for ease. 4 wheel aligned at indy.

Then replaced the front struts springs bearing tops drop links. To balance out front to rear. 

Bad tyre wear front right inner edge. 

Nothing is bent nothing has been hit so something has to be off. Everything is standard with known brand replacement parts. Skf and sachs predominantly.

If the toe is off , the ackerman will be affected. Also driving with the steering  wheel off center is just wrong in the word of power steering. 

Gary

The ackerman

[Tony]

As odd as it sounds the Hunter machine couldn't care less about the steering position because it's position is cosmetic ( within reason )

Understanding Ackerman is to realize on a turn each front wheels have a different radius.

[Devonshire]

 

The ackerman angles will be thrown out surely if the steering wheel is not centred. Yes or no?

The Hunter video online YouTube. Clearly show the steering being specifically set straight. Why? if it does not really matter

Whereas on older vehicles non assisted it would be cosmetic you could take off the wheel and re centre it. 

With power assist it will affect where the assist comes in. Or sensors on electronic assist and turning lights increasingly more common.

Again if the toe is out the ackerman angles will also be affected. 

[Tony]

Let's say we are turning left. The NSF wheel measures 21d .30'....OSF 20 degrees. Assuming the disparity is on both sides that's fine.

Remember the front toe is the only angle that's shared.... Say i've just hit the NSF and knocked it out 10mm... Since the front wheels are connected to each other as soon as i move each front wheel will have 5mm each side.

Ackerman is a very different angle and gets confused with the lock angle.

Currently, the racks centre point is not centred. It's an easy fix by adjusting the steering arms, one side in and the other side out.

[Devonshire]

OK. The car handles like crap. Feels wayward imprecise, twitchy and tramlines badly. 

Abs kicks in on roundabouts or loaded on the left. Long right curves. 

Pronounced in the dry, not there in the wet. Wheels scrubbing skipping outside of parameters? Can drag or skip in the wet so easily. Yes speeds are the same. 

Both bearings are fine. Drivers side brand new skf.

Going to DIY with gunsons trackrite.  So the rears should be aligned to the "chassis" and track in the green.  . These I'm guessing will be OK.

Fronts will obviously need adjusting to get the steering wheel straight , so will align them accordingly.

By biggest gripe is I paid for this to be sorted professionally using technology and it appears the technology is flawed somewhere. 

[Tony]

Typical of the industry... Because if they have a machine doesn't mean they know how to use it.