alexanderfoti Posted January 24, 2020 Report Share Posted January 24, 2020 Hi all We are a small garage that have a CCD based alignment machine, like this: We intend to use the machine on a drive on ramp, which has extensions that are mounted to the floor. These will be levelled in all directions. The ramp section only covers the chassis of the car and leaves the wheels hanging when lifted, like so: Our system allows you to mount up, then tell it you are lifting the vehicle and it adds the offset, allowing you to adjust the vehicle in the air. Is this accurate or a load of rubbish? I plan to use dished turn plates under the front wheels for that setup, but would have though they would add errors in camber measurements? I assume the rears would need it as well, but would have though these need to be flat. Failing that, I plan to use the alignment stands on our 2 poster, which will allow for measurements to be made with the cars weight on the suspension. Will we have the same issues with the dished turnplates on that? I assume so? Thanks in advance, it would be good to find an independent training or supplier that is willing to sell support or give advice. All the ones we found just want to sell us 10k+ worth of new alignment tech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 Hello and welcome... Front turn plates are a must and rear slip plates will also be required.The rear plates allow camber to shift and toe to move in a transverse manner, Plus if you are going to use front plates the cars level will be off meaning the castor measurement will be wrong. To date I've never seen a machine that allows live front toe adjustment ( wheels raised ) Reason for this is raised the toe moves two directions and since the live toe cannot fine it's true position in space the datum will be in gray-shade. You need front plates on bearings because the dish type only works for toe. I would strongly advise you get an initial measurement before the wheels are raised because it's the settled virgin data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammy Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 Similar machine to that i was using on my audi a3. Was on a 4 poster ramp though.. Im not seeing how this can achieve proper alingment with all 4 wheels lifted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 You can for some angles but not the toe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammy Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 Yeah i remember being able to do castor in the air, toe understandably not able too.. Camber and castor ive managed to get some where in the money by premeasuring things before removing bolts etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 You definitely need the virgin measurement because the cars suspension is in the relaxed driven state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammy Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 Just said to the wife when we move i want a big shed with a geo machine and ramp haha that and my decks set uo would be my perfect man cave as it goes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 26, 2020 Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 Just do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexanderfoti Posted January 26, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 21 hours ago, Tony said: Hello and welcome... Front turn plates are a must and rear slip plates will also be required.The rear plates allow camber to shift and toe to move in a transverse manner, Plus if you are going to use front plates the cars level will be off meaning the castor measurement will be wrong. To date I've never seen a machine that allows live front toe adjustment ( wheels raised ) Reason for this is raised the toe moves two directions and since the live toe cannot fine it's true position in space the datum will be in gray-shade. You need front plates on bearings because the dish type only works for toe. I would strongly advise you get an initial measurement before the wheels are raised because it's the settled virgin data. Thank you very much indeed. I did think on all 4 points that they will have to be level. I have an eye on a set of turn plates that can be unlocked and move in all 4 directions, I assume these will be ok for rear and front if I buy 4? I will invest in a set of stands, as I doubt your 4 poster will end up being level for all the different vehicles wheelbases! LWB S classes hang off the end for example, so I think using our 2 poster would be better. Much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 26, 2020 Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 I've seen some platforms that allow the car to be lowered form a ramp like yours, Providing the front plates can turn 360d and the rears can move latterly then that will help. Nevertheless the front and rear must be level. Best method is shims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammy Posted January 26, 2020 Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 On 25/01/2020 at 16:53, Tony said: You can for some angles but not the toe. :lol: definite food for thought mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 27, 2020 Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 The machine looks good, all i don't like is how they attach to the wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexanderfoti Posted January 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 I agree, its a pain. I am going to replicate the posts in plastic or nylon, metal on metal is horrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 28, 2020 Report Share Posted January 28, 2020 It's just they chip the paint.... Some of the wheels we work on may cost 10k each... Chip one the owner won't have it refurbished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexanderfoti Posted January 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2020 Absolutely, even customers with £500 merc wheels wont have a chipped wheel, I dont blame them. Horrible design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammy Posted January 28, 2020 Report Share Posted January 28, 2020 Have you looked for used hunter machines on ebay? They pop up on there.. Most fully working some just need updating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexanderfoti Posted January 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2020 The only issue with hunters, is that they need a permanent bay and a 4 poster I believe? We only have 2 ramps and cannot dedicate one just for geo at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 22 hours ago, alexanderfoti said: Absolutely, even customers with £500 merc wheels wont have a chipped wheel, I dont blame them. Horrible design. Snap-on and Super tracker use the same method. It's possible your machine can have tyre huggers type of system.....At a cost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 22 hours ago, alexanderfoti said: The only issue with hunters, is that they need a permanent bay and a 4 poster I believe? We only have 2 ramps and cannot dedicate one just for geo at the moment. Two posters are fine providing there are slip-plates on the trellises.... A word of warning air suspension needs to be locked off if the wheels are raised but they don't always settle once jacked. If you take an initial print before jacking it will make explaining why the cambers on the rear have go from green to red without adjustment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexanderfoti Posted January 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 Absolutely. I indend to have slip plates on all 4 corners, 2 front ones will rotate as well. I am very used to the foibles of MB air suspension or ABC, ill keep it in mind. I will have to have the car settle on the stands properly, as the floor wont be level, so ill need to get it on the levelled stands and then get the car to level manually via STAR etc. as I indend to lift car > put on stands > attachd alignment heads and go from there, or is that no good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 That's fine... I assume it can do the runout compensation wheels raised?......You can shim the platforms to get them levelled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexanderfoti Posted January 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 It does indeed yes. I have the shims but the floor is pretty level, so the little adjustment feet should allow me to get it pretty close Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted February 1, 2020 Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 Reads to me you know more than you like to admit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMARTLY Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 Doubt it, user error Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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