DJ_AS Posted June 15, 2019 Report Share Posted June 15, 2019 Hi all, hoping someone can illuminate the potential cause of my issues. I took the wife's Honda Jazz in to the garage for some work on the brakes and thought I'd get the alignment check as the nearside front has been kerbed twice recently. Anyway, after adjusting front toe, driving down the road I'm having to hold the a few degrees to the left (i.e. towards the kerb) in order to go straight. They've had another couple of goes to get this right but is still isn't. The steering wheel is definitely straight while they are doing the alignment (on the third attempt the boss sat in the car to hold it instead of using the clamp). I've attached a copy of the alignment report. To my eyes there are a couple of things that jump out: 1. thrust angle is out as is (possibly due to?) rear camber out of spec. This is non-adjustable and nothing seems obviously broken at the rear. 2. Toe was negative for the L wheel and positive for the R wheel, so I guess this means the front wheels were both pointing towards the kerb before (correct?). So why would the steering wheel not be straight now? Idea 1. Their alignment rig is out of calibration. I didn't think to ask at the time when it was last checked. Idea 2. The previous toe settings were a bodge to correct for an incorrectly aligned steering wheel Idea 3. The previous toe settings were a bodge to correct for the thrust angle This is the first time we've had the alignment checked in the time we've owned the car (~3 years, approx 6-7k miles per year) and there have been no issues with uneven tyre wear. What do you reckon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 15, 2019 Report Share Posted June 15, 2019 The cambers front and rear are different each side which isn't perfect, but they were like that before when you didn't have a problem. Was any tyre work done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_AS Posted June 15, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2019 Hey Tony - hope you're well! The tyres have been changed a couple of times in the time we had the car (punctures...). They're all the same brand - Pirelli Cinturato All Season (good tyre BTW). Fronts are more worn than the rears. Offside front is probably worn by ~2mm more than the nearside. Rears seem about equivalent to each other. Haven't checked the tyre pressures today but they were all fine about 2-3 weeks ago. The garage did say about swapping them around but they'd already stayed late today so I told them not to worry. Swapping front to back is straightforward but left to right is not so much (directional tyres). Is it worth rotating the tyres front to back do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 15, 2019 Report Share Posted June 15, 2019 For testing purposes only i would move the fronts side-to-side. That way if the problem is tyre related it will show. After have them moved back and let us know, so we can move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_AS Posted June 15, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2019 Cheers Tony, will try that when I get a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_AS Posted June 16, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 Another thought just occured to me: on the third attempt, the only one I watched, the car was not on the turnplates. Does this have the potential to affect the alignment accuracy or do the turnplates just allow adjustments to be made more easily? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 16, 2019 Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 Unforgivable error...... Any adjustments will end up twisted in the tyre sidewall..... The tyre "HAS" to be on frictionless plates. Even grease or lubrication on the plates isn't allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_AS Posted June 16, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 Cheers Tony. Tried to save time by getting the alignment checked while the car was in for brakes and ended up with more hassle. Serves me right for not bringing the car down to WIM! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 16, 2019 Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 If they did as you said then it's no wonder the steering wheels not level..... As soon as the car drives the "over adjustment" held in the tyre sidewall would release, meaning the toe would be totally wrong and uneven between the front wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 On 16/06/2019 at 12:49, DJ_AS said: Cheers Tony. Tried to save time by getting the alignment checked while the car was in for brakes and ended up with more hassle. Serves me right for not bringing the car down to WIM! I was going to say the garage you went to isn't that far from WIM. Good example of how the alignment on a car which isn't that adjustable can still be messed up! Are you going to try and get a refund from the garage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_AS Posted June 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2019 Hey Rich, Indeed the garage I went to isn't that far from Chesham, but its very close to my home. And I had no initial intention of getting the alignment done, the car was booked in for a brake change. For everyday mechanical stuff they're a decent enough garage. I spotted the alignment gear inside and asked them to check it 'seeing as I was there'. Despite the simplicity of the Jazz setup, and the computer-guided alignment, they still messed it up! I have already asked about a refund and we have agreed they will give one once I have a set of independent measurements showing they've messed it up. Problem is I now have a very full diary for weeks so I don't know when I'm going to sort that out... It was handy when I worked in Watford - 1.30pm finish on a Fri and then on to WIM for some new boots/alignment! Mind you, not having kids back then also made scheduling stuff easier! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_AS Posted June 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2019 <offtopic> In fact, I think I remember my first visit to Tony was in Watford, STS or something. Is that right? It was a long time ago! </offtopic> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 23, 2019 Report Share Posted June 23, 2019 Would have been around 12yrs ago... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted June 23, 2019 Report Share Posted June 23, 2019 Yes it was around 13 years a go I met Tony at STS, I joined the forum in 2006. Seems a lifetime a go now! Chesham is much easier to get to though, Watford traffic is a complete nightmare now. I prefer the lanes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_AS Posted June 26, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2019 We're at risk of sounding like a load of old fogies reminiscing like this... Anyway, had the alignment rechecked today at JPS Wheel Alignment in Milton Keynes as I work in MK and they could fit me in at lunch time. Unsurprisingly, the front toe was out and after correction all is good again. The original garage have provided a refund and apologised profusely. Turns out they had the alignment gear calibration checked a couple of days ago and something was out of spec. All's well that ends well as they say. Small donation made to the forums by way of thanks for your time, Tony. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 26, 2019 Report Share Posted June 26, 2019 I understand the calibration issue... There has to be an interval between everything ok and it going wrong. Fair play for the refund, that speaks volumes. End of days what really matters is the problem has been solved.... And thank you for the donation it really helps with the licence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted June 27, 2019 Report Share Posted June 27, 2019 Good stuff, glad it's sorted and they refunded your money, many wouldn't. Thanks for the donation too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shekhar Posted August 17, 2020 Report Share Posted August 17, 2020 Hi DJ, Did the Milton Keynes garage also tell that the rear wheel cannot be aligned? Just wondering, as I had my 2003 Honda Jazz alignment done and the report shows rear wheel readings in Red but the garage said that it can't be adjusted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 18, 2020 Report Share Posted August 18, 2020 The rear should have rear toe adjustment, although they do tend to seize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 Hello, I have a Honda Jazz Sport Navi 2018 (68 Reg) from new from a Honda Main dealership. The steering wheel is out by approx 2 ° left hand down when driving straight and level. When centred vehicle steers right. I reported the issue when I had the car in for its 20,000 service and the mechanic, sorry “Technician” told me this was because I had part worn and unmatched front tyres. I had matching Continental tyres fitted at KwikFit and the problem persisted. KwikFit re tested and tried to get the alignment right but could only do so within acceptable tolerances with an error message at the bottom of the printout “Steering wheel not centred”! I took it back to the main dealership, whom I have had 4 new cars from in 12 years, only to be told that this was normal “because British roads have a camber so the steering wheel might seem to be a little out”. (!!!!) Any advice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 6, 2021 Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 Hi and welcome. The road crown will not move the steering position. Has the geometry been measured and if you could you show us the printout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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