Gman Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 New here and after some advice. Hit a pot hole over the week end near side and damaged the side wall of the tyre. So a new tyre was required the car was running budget tyres on the front like this when I got it so thought this would be a good time to get some decent rubber and replace both the front tyres. Got some Michelin poilt sport 4's fitted , they then told me my alignment was out... I was in two minds to let them do this as it was not my normal tyre garage.. Result car drives worse then before .. firstly the tyres were way over inflated... Having looked at the paper work it's says before alignment +0.5 and after +1.5 I take it this is the front toe? I don't know much but I thought FWD cars should have toe out (negative) ? The car now drives very skittish and nervous in a straight line just feels wrong! I'm booking it in at another garage to have a realignment. I trust this garage but what sort of toe/ out should I be looking at? How many miles do new tyres take to bed in ? Any advice appreciated thanks . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 Welcome to WIM Can you put up a copy of the report you were given? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 Welcome to wim You are correct the static toe should be negative around 10' total so that the dynamic toe is 0. As the car gets older the static toe would be increased toward negative due to the worn bushings.It seems to me their machine is out of calibration meaning they have blindly set the toe to far negative hence the skittish handling. New tyres bed in instantly in the dry and about 500 miles in the wet. This is not due to anything other than the new tyres will under steer and the driver needs time to adjust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman Posted October 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 Thanks for the replys. I didn't actually get a print out just a figure of before and after. I do know that all they adjusted was the toe so the figure can only be that. Hopefully having toe adjustment carried out on Thursday will report back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 Sounds like a basic laser machine who's job is simply toe... Point to note is the front toe's difference point is the thrust angle at the rear of the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 You need to get a full geometry that measures toe, camber, caster, thrust angle etc, otherwise you'll just be going around in circles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 Quite right.... Many companies won't measure the non adjustable angles like castor and KPI... Well adjustable or not they still need to be measured.. Measuring all the secondary angles takes 30sec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman Posted October 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 Yeah ok ,where I'm going Thursday they do all of that ,used them before so hopefully they will sort it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman Posted October 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 Well had the alignment done ... and results not good !? They said it was within factory specs... .. they checked front and rear toe, caster, camber thrust angle and other secondary angles all which were ok. They did change the toe slightly... The front toe now is reading Left- 0.6mm Right- 0.6mm Total - 1.2mm This figures are in spec apparently with factory spec being 0.0mm - 2.5mm ... ? Adjusted tyre pressure's seem very slightly better but I'm still not happy with it. One thing I did notice that when I had the new tyres fitted they put the wheel which was on the nsf or the osf... not sure if this would make a difference. Any ideas ..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 A drift due to the tyres is very common so moving them side-side isn't a problem.... What numbers do you have for the front camber and castor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman Posted October 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 Ok thanks will give this a go.. Camber - left- -0.29 Right -0.28 Castor - Left 4.21 Right 3.59 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 They look ok..... How does the drive feel now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman Posted October 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 Not as good as before ... seems to pull at times.. seems to tramline more as well . So I can rule out the tracking as this seems to be all ok..? One thing I have noticed is a slight floor vibration at 60-70mph... maybe wheels are slightly off balance? I think some of it may be due to the new tyres with higher tread blocks ... not sure, I've only covered 350 miles on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 Next thing in my book is to move the rear tyres to the front and test drive again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman Posted October 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 Yes think I will do this , but why would new Michelin tyres behave like this .... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 Have a read of this - http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=165 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman Posted October 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 Interesting.. though this one of the reasons I brought premium tyres to avoid situations like this... ... Also car seems slightly slower accelerating ..? ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 Thing is the markings are only as good as the fitter reading them........Nevertheless one thing is bugging me and that's the tramlining? If the toe angles are correct ( and they are ) why is the car susceptible meaning the toe must be changing dynamically... On your car the reason for this is worn lower wishbone bushings but i hope this has been checked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 Good point but aren't the bushes horizontal on the Focus so they don't tend to wear as quickly? On my Mondeo which had vertical bushes the car tramlined everytime they showed any sign of separating from the arm. Can't worn ball joints and TREs caused this too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 Yep they are horizontal and the car needs to be jacked up in order to see the metal core torn away, loaded ( wheels down ) they would look fine. The ball joints could do it but they would need to be so worn the noise alone would tell you there's a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman Posted October 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 Lower wishbone bush as not be checked their is no noise and car has only covered 19k , unless it got damaged when hitting the pot hole. ... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 On your geometry report is there a measurement for KPI also called SAI? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman Posted October 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 Been out driving today.. on the motorway car seemed fine ...? Around town it seems to pull around a bit and tramlines more then before ... I'm starting to think it might just be down to new/ different tyres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman Posted October 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 Yes their is SAI angles which are the following Left 14.39' Right 14.47' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 Those numbers are good so now we know the wishbones are fine. The fact it's fine on the motorway suggests the tyres can't cope with the road crown... I think for testing purposes move the front tyres side-to-side and see if there's a difference on the pull/ tramlining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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