Tony Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 I'll look forward to that.... One thing we do but it's not common place is we let the owner set the final steering position. The reason we do this is humans can have a different perception of "level". I go by true level, someone else may go with the slightly off-line steering column and some go by the dash level. So in order to save a complaint and time re-measuring the chassis we let the owner validate the position. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hart Posted December 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 I'll look forward to that.... One thing we do but it's not common place is we let the owner set the final steering position. The reason we do this is humans can have a different perception of "level". I go by true level, someone else may go with the slightly off-line steering column and some go by the dash level. So in order to save a complaint and time re-measuring the chassis we let the owner validate the position. Hadn't considered that Tony, but I guess this of all things can be subjective, while the other measurements and adjustments must be absolute within tolerances of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 Indeed.... Point is there's a target position and then there's the permitted manufacturers tolerance. For adjustable angles i'm only interested in the target position give or take a minute or two, a minute being about the thickness of a piece of paper. For non adjustable angles you then refer to the manufactures tolerance for guidance My reasoning regarding the customers setting the steering position was born from a lady's complaint... I did the geo and she came back saying the steering was off... I said sorry we are human and can make mistakes so i put it back on the rig and it was a tiny fraction but i set it anyway..... Then she came back "IT'S STILL OFF!" So i put it back on and again it was a fraction, then she came back again but hostile so i measured it again and it was spot on At this point i asked her to validate the position and she yanked the steering to 10-20 Seemingly to her straight was the steering spoke pointing at the clock on the dash? Thereafter i let the customer set the final position Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hart Posted December 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 Indeed.... Point is there's a target position and then there's the permitted manufacturers tolerance. For adjustable angles i'm only interested in the target position give or take a minute or two, a minute being about the thickness of a piece of paper. For non adjustable angles you then refer to the manufactures tolerance for guidance My reasoning regarding the customers setting the steering position was born from a lady's complaint... I did the geo and she came back saying the steering was off... I said sorry we are human and can make mistakes so i put it back on the rig and it was a tiny fraction but i set it anyway..... Then she came back "IT'S STILL OFF!" So i put it back on and again it was a fraction, then she came back again but hostile so i measured it again and it was spot on At this point i asked her to validate the position and she yanked the steering to 10-20 Seemingly to her straight was the steering spoke pointing at the clock on the dash? Thereafter i let the customer set the final position Would I right in thinking the measurable amount of a minute varies depending on the length of the effective "lever" or how far from the centre point the measurement is taken...or am I completely wrong?? I like my steering wheel with the top spokes horizontal LOL! Am I right in thinking that a few Mk2 Mondeos had issues with wandering towards the kerb when they were intruduced? I seem to remember something about this many years ago. Out of interest I was chatting to a mechanic at work the other day (I'm a London bus driver) we were discussing the work I was doing on my V6 and he mentioned he had bought an ST200 new a few years ago and immediately he could feel that the car wasn't driving straight. Long story cut short after many visits to the selling dealer who point blank refused to see there was a fault, he had the car independently checked and the report came back that the car had received a big shunt on the near side front "in transit" from Belgium and that Ford had bodged the repair and sold it as new. the engineers who compiled the report said that there was fare more paint on the near side front wing than the rest of the car and that the front sub frame had been shifted in the shunt and not replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 A minute is a division of a measurement of arc, normally into 60 minutes per degree decimal. The MK1 Mondeo did have pulling problems, it was before my day really but i suspect it was castor related? The ST200 still has issues mainly front inner tyre wear but this time it's due to the wheels off-set so there's nothing i can do about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hart Posted December 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 "The ST200 still has issues mainly front inner tyre wear but this time it's due to the wheels off-set so there's nothing i can do about it." Oh bugger, I've just bought a set of immaculate ST200 wheels for my car :sad01_anim: :sad01_anim: does that mean I'll have issues with fitment? :banghead: do hope not!!! :crying_anim02: :crying_anim02: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 That's the first time I've heard about the ST200 wheels causing wear issues and I had a Mondeo for 6 years, never read anything about it on the forum. Maybe it wasn't such a common problem. I know the MK3 has issues when it's running 18" wheels though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Pr is it the 220 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Pr is it the 220 The ST220 is the MK3, ST200 is MK2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Yeah i think it's the 220 which has the same chassis as on of the Jaguar's, X type i believe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Got him worried for a minute there! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hart Posted December 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Thank Christ for that! ☔☔ That would've been a disaster. Picking up on your sense of humour too gents also taken the time to look at the forum properly, the website too. I will be coming to you for the Geometry on my mk2 in January. Your a little way from me but I get the distinct impression ill get the best job from you guys. On that note should I have the 17" ST200 alloys on the car for the geo? Or will it be ok to have the standard 16" ghiaX alloys on? Only ask as the tyres on the 17's are worn and need replacing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 The forum does have a great social hub since most of the technical ground has been established. The wheel diameter is not an issue nor is the off-sets because we're not adjusting the camber, if we was then the projected contact patch would be an issue. However the tyre width does need consideration because the tyres generate rolling resistance from the road meaning additional width would effect the static toe position albeit by a tiny amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMARTLY Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 I used to have an ST24, was that a MK1? Would have been 98 / 99 I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 I used to have an ST24, was that a MK1? Would have been 98 / 99 I think. MK2, the MK1 was 93-96 I think. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hart Posted December 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Ford didn't make an ST24 mk1 , all were mk2's. Ford did make an Si mk1 and a 4x4 too. Plus a number of bright yellow/green (called citrine) Si's that were all 2 litre lumps. A few of these were modified at a Ford dealers called Hendy Ford and became known as "Hendies" Ford made a 2.5 v6 mk1 but the secondary inlet manifold opened using a vacuum.on the mk2, this was changed to an electronic/mechanical system that Ford placed at the top of the front bank. Consequently the control box gets too hot and fails... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Not many of those Citrines left now, in fact there aren't many Mk1's at all, lucky to see a MK2 on the road nowadays as well. I always fancied an ST200. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hart Posted April 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Resurrecting my old thread. I've finally got the cash together to have a full alignment done. Can I book a session for Friday 8th May please guys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 You are probably better off calling the centre or PM joeB12 and he can book you in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 As above please Peter because i don't have the diary to hand at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hart Posted May 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 Tony, have you come across these people: http://www.elitedirect.com/ They are much closer to me and appear to use the Hunter equipment. Cheers Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 Elite are ok but make sure they measure the caster and give you a printout. The Mondeo only has adjustable rear and front toe so there's not a lot that can go wrong unless they really don't know what they're doing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hart Posted May 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 Thanks Rich. I've discovered that changing the front toe also changes the camber. Increasing toe in increases positive camber on that wheel too and vice versa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Elite run hot and cold in my book.... As Rich says be sure they measure the castor, just because it's not adjustable doesn't mean you don't need to know where it is!..... Have you got camber adjusters fitted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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