Rich Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Shortly after I got the Accord I noticed when I first pull away from cold it seems to hesitate on the first gear change. This is more noticeable in the colder weather as well. Last night when driving home from work it felt worse than it normally does, like it wanted to change gear but was holding back. If I'm not really gentle when pulling away it looks like I'm kangarooing the car! The gear change when driving also isn't as smooth, it's like it's trying to change gear at the wrong time. If I drive in semi auto mode and change gear myself there doesn't seem to be a problem although it does still hesitate the first time I change gear. I have never had a CEL or any other light display. I changed the gearbox oil twice, with a 1k miles in between them and the filter, it made no difference. Could this be a sensor problem and why do I have the issue in full auto but semi mode seems to be ok? I'm also still getting the rev counter drop down to idle speed before increasing to where it should be. I did replace the throttle sensor, which helped a little but after disconnecting the battery a while ago and doing the idle learn procedure it's still doing it. It does it in both full and semi auto mode but I'm not sure if it's just a characteristic of the car/an auto. It doesn't seem to affect how it drives and I'm not sure if this is related to the other problem above. To add, from the parts diagram it looks like the gearbox has a 2 solenoids, 2 pick up assy and a position sensor. What do each of these do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesV70R Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 It could just be the oil is still very thick when it's cold, and that is causing the delay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parthiban Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 That sounds almost exactly like that Porsche Boxster on wheeler dealers! I still don't completely understand (in both instances) why the gearbox would be fine in manual mode, but not in full auto? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liner33 Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Autos hold the gear longer when cold , helps warm the box and engine up more quickly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parthiban Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Where is the issue exactly? Is it when pulling away from a standstill in 1st? Or an issue with the 1st to 2nd gear change? Could be an electronic issue as well, maybe the gearbox ECU needs reprogramming? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted November 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 It could just be the oil is still very thick when it's cold, and that is causing the delay? It could be, it's only an issue when the car is cold. If I've driven it for a while, leave it for an hour and come back it's ok and doesn't do it. That sounds almost exactly like that Porsche Boxster on wheeler dealers! I still don't completely understand (in both instances) why the gearbox would be fine in manual mode, but not in full auto? Didn't that car have a problem with actually getting into gear though? I used Honda oil when I did both changes and when I check it it's still bright red rather than the ruby colour it was. Autos hold the gear longer when cold , helps warm the box and engine up more quickly Even if they do surely the gear change should still be relatively smooth? I know they are completely different boxes but I am comparing it to how the Civic drives, which is my only other experience with an auto. That gearbox changes with no jerkiness at all whatever the weather. Where is the issue exactly? Is it when pulling away from a standstill in 1st? Or an issue with the 1st to 2nd gear change? Could be an electronic issue as well, maybe the gearbox ECU needs reprogramming? It's the latter, changing from 1st to 2nd once I've pulled away but it's only on the first change. I'll pull out of my space and drive forward a few metres and when the car wants to change to 2nd it feels like it's getting stuck and holding back but does eventually change. If I give it too much throttle though the car will kangaroo and it'll change, almost like something has been freed off. I'm talking of speeds around 10mph as well. Last night it felt worse than it usually does cos it felt hesitant changing gear going down the road once I had pulled away. I'll see what it's like when I leave later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liner33 Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Yes it should be smooth but its normal to hold the gear for much more rpm and almost feel like its struggling to change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parthiban Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Does it feel like 1st is disengaging but not engaging 2nd then? Yes it should be smooth but its normal to hold the gear for much more rpm and almost feel like its struggling to change Ours don't do that, they keep revs low by shifting up earlier until the engine gets to a reasonable temp. The Lexus won't go over 4.5k revs until the temp needle rises off the stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liner33 Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 My dsg does and the 370 , the skyline used to as well , it pretty common Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parthiban Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 My dsg does and the 370 , the skyline used to as well , it pretty common Interesting, our cars are fairly old now, wonder if that's a more modern methodology? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted November 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Yes it should be smooth but its normal to hold the gear for much more rpm and almost feel like its struggling to change Overall the gearbox is silky smooth, it's just the first minute of driving it doesn't feel right. It wasn't as noticeable in the summer so maybe it is just the box adjusting to the colder temperatures. Does it feel like 1st is disengaging but not engaging 2nd then? Yes it should be smooth but its normal to hold the gear for much more rpm and almost feel like its struggling to change Ours don't do that, they keep revs low by shifting up earlier until the engine gets to a reasonable temp. The Lexus won't go over 4.5k revs until the temp needle rises off the stop. I'm not sure, I suppose in a way it does feel like that though. I've not actually tried that in mine, I think I will and see if it limits the rpm to start with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liner33 Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/archive/index.php/t-44598.html First encountered it with my Mercedes , not my post but one i quickly found does the car have a trans cooler ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parthiban Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Again quite interesting as they are talking about similar era cars in that thread to our Merc, which does none of that when cold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted November 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 I could've written that first post, that's exactly what mine is doing, although theirs does sound more noticeable. I've been Googling the issue for a while and hadn't come across that thread. AFAIK it doesn't have a cooler, I can't see one on the parts diagram. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liner33 Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Any pipes connected to the rad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted November 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Any pipes connected to the rad? Looks like there is yes - http://www.lingshondaparts.com/honda_car_parts_selection_pfk.php?block_01=17SED01&block_02=B__0510&block_03=443 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted November 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 I pulled away in semi mode when leaving work and left it in 1st gear until I got to the road and then changed, it seemed ok. There doesn't seem to be a rev limit, it went over 4k but I didn't want to push it anymore when cold. I think vtec kicks in at 6k rpm so if there is a limit that might be it. I won't be leaving work this late again until Monday so will try pulling away in full auto mode and pay more attention to the revs and whether it holds them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liner33 Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Might be worth shielding the rad a bit then during winter , allow the box to warm up,quicker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parthiban Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 It won't limit revs in semi-auto mode (or shouldn't anyway), but yes if there is one it'll probably be at the vtec switchover. The Lexus VVTi kicks in at 4.5k revs which is why it limits it there when cold. So is it just staying in 1st for longer when cold? I thought you mentioned the actual gear engagement not being clean and the car kangarooing which all sounds very wrong for an auto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted November 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 It's a strange one, I don't notice it as much when leaving home but I do work. I hadn't used the car since Wednesday night and this morning it was 10-12 degrees, so warmer than it has been and I didn't notice it at all when I left home. The car seems to change gear around 2.5k rpm when cold and after it had warmed up. When leaving work though I notice it alot and it'll change from 1st to 2nd eventually but until it does I have to drive the car very gently. Once it's done that initial change it's fine afterwards. I've never paid attention to what rpm it changes at so will do that but if I try to accelerate then it'll change gear but with a jolt, the car seems to slow down/pull back and then jolt forward once it's in gear like it's kanagrooing. Maybe my explanation isn't very good! The car park is quite exposed at work, usually when I leave the front screen has formed condensation on it. I don't usually get this at home cos I park right in front of the house so maybe that's shielding it from the elements and the warmth from the house helps? Would shielding the rad not cause problems with airflow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parthiban Posted November 28, 2014 Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 That sounds more like it's just staying in 1st gear a bit longer for the first change so that ties in with Liner's explanation earlier. Do you normally start the car and drive away straight away? If you do, might be worth trying starting the car and sitting for 5 mins before pulling away and see if it still does the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted November 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 That sounds more like it's just staying in 1st gear a bit longer for the first change so that ties in with Liner's explanation earlier. Do you normally start the car and drive away straight away? If you do, might be worth trying starting the car and sitting for 5 mins before pulling away and see if it still does the same thing. Yes I do pull away once I've started or at least within 60 seconds normally unless the windows are badly misted up. Another thought is when I leave home I reverse out of the driveway first, maybe that is circulating the oil so when I change to 1st and move off I don't notice it holding the gear. At work I have to reverse into my space otherwise it'll be a mission trying to reverse out. I'll leave it for 5 minutes next time it's really cold and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4UL T Posted December 1, 2014 Report Share Posted December 1, 2014 Or reverse onto the driveway at home so you drive straight off in first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 I had that same idea yesterday, usually I reverse in during the summer when it's light but I drive in during the winter just in case I don't see the walls, plus the front screen doesn't get as icey or misted up. I waited a couple of minutes before leaving work last night and although it's not been as cold the change between 1st and 2nd wasn't as noticeable. When it gets colder I'll test it again by driving straight off one day and waiting the next and see what happens. I had no idea that auto boxes held the gears longer when cold, I really thought something was faulty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liner33 Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 Don't worry I thought my Merc was broken as well when I first encountered it , either that or that the thicker oil was causing issues which probably is a factor . My Skyline was always very troublesome, sometimes impossible to select the gears when it was cold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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