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BMW E91 330D SE steering wheel off centre after many Hunter alignments


Butters
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Hi all.

 

First post and I have a problem, which I'm sure is very common on here so I hope it isn't in breach of any rules / etiquette!

 

I'm having a bit of a nightmare with a car I bought in January. It's a very late 2005 E91 330D SE Touring and had a number of (mainly engine) problems when I bought it, all of which (except this non-engine related problem) have now been dealt with. Here's the story.....

 

The car had 17" wheels with run flat tyres that had been worn in the centre on the rear due to over inflation. I asked the garage (PMW - excellent bunch of people in my opinion) to swap the fronts for the rears and this somehow caused the steering wheel to be off (I didn't realise the tyres were worn funny until I swapped the wheels later). I asked them to do a 4 wheel alignment, which centred the steering wheel nicely and I felt the difference that so many people talk about in handling. Here are the printouts:

 

1.jpg

 

Then I bought some second hand 18" wheels with fairly worn (4mm ish) and slightly too large for the car (225/45/18 instead of 225/40/18 and 245/45/18 instead of 255/35/18) tyres and the steering wheel was very slightly off to the left when going straight. I picked up a slow puncture a couple of days later so I took the car to a local tyre shop with a Hunter machine (nameless for now) to get the puncture repaired. Whilst I was there I asked them to check the geo as the steering wheel was slightly off. Here's what they came back with:

 

2.jpg

 

They said that the rear left toe was on the limit and that the tyres had worn a bit funky during their life, which might explain the slight steering wheel misalignment. I decided not to have them adjust anything as I planned to put new tyres on and carried on using it, although I don't do very many miles at all. Sure enough, during a 250 mile journey to Bristol and back last week, the steering wheel seemed to sort itself out and I was happy.

 

I had also ordered some brand new Goodyear Eagle F1 AS2 from Oponeo and they arrived Monday just gone. I didn't know what the coloured lines on the tyres meant at the time (do now) but I think I remember them being very similar. I checked the DOT code and all of them were made between the 11th and 17th week this year. 11th for the rears and 17th for the fronts.

 

Full of excitement at the prospect of having new tyres, I trundle off to nameless tyre shop and get them fitted. Whilst I'm there, I asked them to do another Hunter alignment check as I thought it would be a good idea to sort out that pesky rear left toe now that I have shiny new tyres. This is what they came back with:

 

3.jpg

 

I was pretty surprised. The same machine (I think - they have two) that it had been on just 4 weeks earlier now said that I needed £96 worth of adjustments. They were also having their machines calibrated that day - not sure if that's important or not. I figured that these are new (and fairly expensive) tyres with no funky wear and it's probably a good time to get the adjustment done, so I went ahead.Here's the result of their work:

 

4.jpg

 

Within a few miles of leaving the nameless tyre shop, I noticed that the steering wheel was off to the left and felt really, really disappointed. I had a work meeting so couldn't turn back and resolved that I would visit them the next day with the complaint that they hadn't centred the steering wheel properly when taking adjustments.

 

So I went back the next day and explained what I thought might have happened. They offered to put the car back on the machine and see what they could find. Apparently they also tried swapping the front wheels over (staggered so can't swap back to front) and took it for a test drive (they agreed it's off to the left). They tried some more adjustments and here's the result:

 

5.jpg

 

The steering wheel is still turned left the same amount and they've said they would check it again once the tyres have "bedded in". I'm not 100% sure I buy that, but my girlfriend is taking the car on a 600 mile round trip this weekend so I guess there will be plenty of bedding in going on. There's no time to do anything but let her take it now as she's off at 9am tomorrow.

 

So I guess my questions are:

 

- What's going on?

- Is their machine screwed?

- Is the car screwed and only likes funky worn tyres?

- Are the tyres going to suffer any funky wear over 600 miles or so?

- If I take it somewhere else and they get completely different measurements, can I expect a refund from nameless tyre shop?

- Is it possible that another place would find different measurements?

 

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Hi welcome to WIM :)

 

Tony is on his honeymoon but will be back in a few days so you'll get a better reply then but I'll try and help.

 

Apart from the first geometry report the others haven't had the caster measured, you can tell this from the grey shading. I doubt it's adjustable but you don't get the full image of the chassis without it.

 

I'm pretty sure with some (maybe all) BMWs you have to add ballast before doing a geometry, did they do anything like this? If I'm wrong Tony will say.

 

Did they get you to centre the steering wheel to your liking before starting the work or getting you to verify it was to your liking afterwards? Did they brace it into position once it had been centred?

 

Tyres that have worn on one axle, which are then swapped to another can make the steering wheel go off centre but as you have new rubber this shouldn't be the case.

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Rich is right, the alignment can be adjusted perfectly, but if the technicians idea of the steering wheel being level is different from yours, then it'll still seem as if it is off. When it goes back for its re-check, I'd suggest you personally checking that the steering wheel is at the position you'd like it to be, as how he perceives dead straight may be different to how you do.
As for the tyre wear, if I'm right with what's been said above, there shouldn't be any, the problem is purely cosmetic. The vehicle is aligned correctly, just not to the steering position!!


 

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Welcome to wim and thank you Rich and Joe for your replies in my absence....

 

As said the final steering position is one of the only human interventions the machine cannot check so "perception" of level should rest with the customer not the operator, this is certainly a practice we follow at wim.

 

I am however slightly worried about the numbers displayed and that worry leads me to a problem? As Rich said correctly the BMW needs ballast added so the suspension is at the centre point of compression and relaxation or in true technical terms bump and droop. In order to gain guidance for this addition the Hunter machine informs the technician how much weight to apply in the car but there's an error? That being it gives the weight before the destination ride height?

 

The before and after castor readings being in gray shade is fine, reason i say that is BMW/ VAG acquire the castor positions with the car raised whereas the Hunter machine cannot so the datum is withheld by Hunter. Nevertheless i'm worried ballast has been added ( as instructed ) but the target body height AKA trim height has not been confirmed...... Well so what most might think? My observations question why are the rear cambers so deep ( toward negative ) and why are the castor positions so high, toward positive?... Most times the ballast is added in the boot, this lowers the sprung body and changes the cars rake ( call it body angle ) but in doing so it extends the line measured through the castor and extends the reading toward positive.

 

Ok it's all getting a bit complicated so in summary i'm not happy with the final numbers and if correct you will have future problems. Human error needs to be removed so you need the opportunity to confirm or set the final steering position. Tyres do play an important part in the steering position so zero deviation from a side-to-side move proves or denies pneumatic influence.

 

Last of all there is a steering position censure because the car has active steering and sometimes it needs to be told where dead ahead is? This is very rare so i fail given the history think this could be the reason for your complaint but it's worth remembering.

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