bojcistv Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 I don't know if it is right topic for placing my trouble with my tyres (or whatever it is) but i am sure admin will move it if it isn't. So, in the last 30 days i noticed the slightly shaking of the steering wheel driving on the 120 km/h speed. Here it begins. I went in the local garage and they balanced front tires. Nothing wasn't changed. I went another day and they put the rear wheel on the front place. It made the situation better but now i felt some sort of shaking from the back side. Since i have never felt anything like that on any of my previous car (shaking from back side) i thought it must be cause of the road surface or something like that. My wife hit the pot last winter with the front wheel on the right and it had damaged but garage guy fixed it with the hammer (not proper way....i know) but that wheel was on the front side and i hadn't have any troubles with the front side. Guy in garage said it is up to tire and he thought tire got of the limits and can't be balanced traditional way? I didn't know what does it means. It was before I had done my geometry alignment which i reported here. People from the garage who sold me tires said they see one tire is bit more worn than another 3 and it is cause of the shaking. I bought the tires last year and they have been driven 15.000 km till now. They also said my alignment should have been checked and they thought one of the alloy isn't good but they did the balancing and i thought things are improved. So, I have done the alignment but that was just improve the pulling in one side. Last 10 days i noticed that those shaking from rear has became more vigilant and stronger (it starts at 120 km/h and about that speed it is like car is shaking somehow up and down with slight influence on the steering wheel). It drives me mad. I went to the garage that deal with the alloys and they checked them on the machine and repair some. After that it was the same!!! I couldn't believe it is. I am so p**s.. off and I am wondering what that could be. It is bound to the wheels and tires obviously cause it happen only on 120 to 130 km/h and it's gone. It is visible that one of the tires is bit worn and i think it is because it was placed on the front and garage found some incorrect alignment on the front wheel. So my question is: Is it possible that this slight worn causes so harsh shaking from back side? I mean, I will go today and i will put two winter tires on the back side just cause of experiment to see what will it be like. Maybe I went too wide but believe me I am so mad cause of this that i don't know what to do? Garage who sold me tires said that they can't do anything cause that one tire is bit more worn than the other 3 which is sign alignment wasn't correct and that is the true in fact. Some other guy in the garage said Uniroyal isn't good tire for such a big and powerful car like Mondeo diesel is.... i really dont know any more.... thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 I have started your own thread for you  Sounds to me like the rim is buckled and needs repairing properly or replaced, then it can be balanced.  How are the garages balancing the wheels, using the centre hole? You need to find somewhere that can balance them using the stud holes as the centre hole is only cosmetic and never dead centre.  Have you got a spare wheel, maybe try that on the one that needs repairing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Vibration is a frequency tolerance, it's not geometric unless the castor positions have been reduced? Â As ER says most tyre shops mount the wheel with a dye in the centre of the wheel, the wheel centre is not a guarantee, it's cosmetically central, so mounting the wheel in this fashion is flawed. The correct way to mount the wheel is by the stud holes, this mimics how the wheel is mounted to the car.... Â Best advice i can give is phone around and ask if they can balance "solid centre wheels" which have to be mounted on a studded plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted September 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Today I went to the garage in the neighborhood and they change rear tires with the winter ones i have. The same trouble is still there. Mechanic who worked there said that he is putting the bet on the tires. He said on the balance machine they (Uniroyal tires) have very strange up and down moves like an ellipse or something. I saw in personal those moves. He shown me another tire on the same wheel and there are no any moves like that. He said there are difference between those types of moves and he think the tires aren't good. I went to another after. We tried to put some used tires on the front wheel and i got different feeling on the steering wheel, like they are not balance but since we made experiment with those old tires i knew it is ok. I think those strange shaking from the rear had gone on those another tires on the front wheels. That another mechanic said that his bet goes on the tires too cause he noticed the same up and down move of the tire while it is placed on the balance machine. On my back home those strange shaking is coming back but this time somehow from the front not from the rear. I know those garage guys thinks that I am of the balance not tire (including my wife) but I know what i am feeling on the 120 km/h. I think it could be rim but most of those guys in garages said rims are in perfect condition. I am really feeling helpless now. I spent some money doing nothing and people see me as lunatic i swear.....I am afraid something get brake in the future on the suspension or i don't know since those vibrations? ..it's not geometric unless the castor positions have been reduced? What do you mean by this "reduced castor positions"? I have done the 3d alignment 20 days ago and they said it is good now...i mean all numbers are inside the factory specs about it. I have thought about the possibility of things on the rear side since the guy who worked on the alignment machine adjusted those angles there on the rear end.... help...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Are you putting the winter tyres onto the same rim though? Can you try a different rim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted September 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Yes. They put the winter tires on the same rims. It is very difficult to find another rim for Ford here in Bosnia. It is pretty rare here in the 16" dimension. Every one of those garage guys said the rims are good. And I saw on my own the winter tires don't have up and down moves on the same rims like the Uniroyal has. Even on the front left wheel there is one tire still with that move up and down. On the right wheel there are no any movements up and down and i saw it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted September 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 I don't know if those up and down movements can get any influence on the possible vibrations on the car? Here are not any of the wheel shop that mount the tires on the way you asked. They use few cone elements to tight the wheel they balanced on the machine and that's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickT Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 It's the part you said about fixing the rim with a hammer and then just swapping tyres that makes me think that the problem is with the rim not a tyre. Try a complete replacement wheel including tyre.... Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 He said above Nick that the wheels are difficult to come by in Bosnia so I think either a proper repair is needed or find someone who can balanced solid centre wheels. Are there any French cars over there? Â Although if the winter tyre does seem ok on that rim maybe the tyre is out of shape? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted September 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Well guys thanks for replaying and for trying to help. I was on the garage that deals with the rims and they have special machinery for repairing the alloy and steel rims as well. Man who works in there said to me he is guarantee for the work and he said that the rims in fact shouldn't have been repaired and he thinks it could be like that for long time. We were in the town now and i put the steering wheel into my wife's hands. She said I am not imagining anything and she felt shaking as well. I felt the shaking under my passenger side and it was like tires aren't balanced well. Rim were dealt with the hammer in 2010. and it hasn't been any trouble with it since the 20 days or so. My previous winter tires on the front wheel were some anonymous Portuguese brand and I use to drive even 200 km/h with no troubles. I put them on in the November and get them out in the April and that's it. With this Uniroyal tires i am in the garage every month or so and i thought it might be cause of the Mondeo weight and power, along the fact we drive a lot mileage every day, cause they are unbalanced so often. Â So if the rims were in trouble should that be visible no matter what tires are mounted on them? I am more and more closer to the story Uniroyal tires got out of the parameters and it can't be balanced. I didn't want to believe something like that is possible cause they are brand new tires with 15.000 km driven. Maybe cause of that thoughts i haven't believed the obvious and logical solution. I really don't know. Uniroyal as brand isn't so bad and my tires don't look worn more than usual tires with those mileage. I am thinking is it possible that winter tire previously mounted on the rims could mask trouble with them? Sounds logical if the rims aren't good no matter what tire you put on them it will be out of the balance and shaking...or i am wrong? Â Again...thank you guys..very much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted September 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Are there any French cars over there? Â Although if the winter tyre does seem ok on that rim maybe the tyre is out of shape? Â Yes here are many French cars. Why? About the second one....winter tires are on the rear wheels and both guys in the two wheel garages i was today said that they are good. Nice balanced and no that strange movements up and down on the balance machine. Now the source of the shaking is seems to be from the front and somehow it has been transferred on the back side. I noticed that while i was sat on the passenger side while wife was driving. Only the wheel shop who sold me that Uniroyal tires point a finger in the two rims....and i understand them....although it is not professionalism and goodwill of the brand is lowered down...it is not understandable that almost 4 new tires are curved in the 15.000 km.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 French cars use centreless wheels, so these have to be balanced using the stud holes. If you can find a garage that balances using this method it will at least make sure that is ruled out. Â If you switch summer and winter tyres on the same rim and that was the problem it should be noticeable regardless of the tyre, unless it has been balanced properly and the wheels with summer tyres haven't. Â I've had a buckled wheel before that was repaired but it wasn't perfect, it needed alot of weights to balance it out but it did work. This was on the rear on my Mondeo when I had it. Â I would maybe try and get some new rims if you can. Are aftermarket rims for the Mondeo available where you live, maybe try and pick up a cheap set in the same size to try the uniroyal tyres on. Â Not really sure what else you can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted September 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 Thank you very much Racer. I am more and more closer to the fact the tires are bad. If the rims were bad I will buy some used alloy rims with some winter tires on it so I will see what will going on. If the trouble were in the rims i will have set of winter and summer tires mounted on the rims which is not bad option in the end. I will buy something like this http://www.pik.ba/artikal/3959114/alu-felge-16-ford/ It is on Serb but you can see the pics... Once again thanks. I will report it here no matter the result... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 As said you need then to be balanced by mounting the wheels by the stud holes. It's not until this is done you can move on knowing wheel balance is not the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMARTLY Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 Have you got a friend with a Mondeo who would swap all 4 wheels for an hour and then road test both cars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted September 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 I thought about that too but none of my friends drives Mondeo. I will try to mount some used tires on the wheels and to see what will be or to buy those alloy rims i posted above to see if there will be any difference. Unfortunately no ones here don't do the wheel balancing that way (on the stud holes) so i just don't know where to do that. I will try to experiment with the used tires to see what is going on. If there would be any shaking rims are trouble not tires. Maybe I have trouble with refusing the fact tires are gone cause they looks as brand new with no significant wear. Many people told me the rims shouldn't create such shaking like i am feeling. It could be possible though but there would be very visible damaging of the rim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted September 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 Some fresh news. I bought another rims and tires and problem is still there. No matter what i do with the wheels or the rims car is vibrating on the 120 km/h. And that vibration are increased with the speed. I am confused and desperate. This issue has no anything with the rims or tires definitively. Only other thing that comes to me is problem with the shocks. No matter i don't hear any sounds from the suspension or something like that and i have no any feeling there is issue with the shocks i don't have anything other to think with this. The worst thing is that my shocks were changed in the novembar 2010. and I've made almost 40.000 km on them. Is there any chance that shocks can't absorb those tiny vibrations created on the higher speeds so they are transferred on the chassis and on the steering wheel as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 Can't be the dampers! I think you need to look toward the drive train. Anything that spins needs balance to spin without generating a form of vibration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMARTLY Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 Drive shaft maybe? Â Try googling it, I came across this: Â when driving along push the clutch pedal in. If the vibration stops then it is possibly the drive shaft gone. it is often the inner bearing on the drivers side shaft that causes the vibration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted September 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 Smartly you have just told what I had found today. Yes it is inner CV joint on the shaft.....in my case it is on the passenger side (steering wheel is on the left side...) Thanks..... I hope I will solve it these days. As i found there are no any aftermarket solution for that part....it has to be bought genuine Ford..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 PM ER, if there's an aftermarket part he will know about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted September 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 Thanks Tony I will. Cheers mate.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted September 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 So, some update on this topic! I changed the inner CV joint and voila...strange "unbalanced wheels like" vibrations are gone but there's one more strange vibration that left....after whole types of test and trying to find out what could it be we found out yesterday it is shocks....no matter i replaced them bit less then 2 years ago and they have been driven about only 35.000 km they are worn....one of the first signs worn shocks is vibrations on steering wheel so i have the one like they said in the guide books for self inspection of shocks.... I will report back here results after shocks replacement....there are Monroe shocks mounted on the car and now i am thinking about Sachs...any experiences or advises? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 Sachs are a good make..... Never known shocks to cause vibration unless they are absolutely blown. Finger crossed for you though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojcistv Posted September 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 I had once on my old BMW that situation. I felt vibs on my steering wheel and I went to mechanic for balancing the wheels but he found bunch of oil on the strut so we changed the shocks in the end. There were not any knocks or noise and i hadn't suspected on shocks any way but just that vibration. This kind of vibrations i have on Mondeo aren't right left like you have on unbalanced wheel but more like shaking you are feeling through the whole car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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